[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[gripper stebson]

Nicked from Twitter.

"Russia has already been cut off from CNN, Pornhub and Facebook. The US is now working on depriving Russians of MacDonalds and CocaCola. If they keep going with these sanctions, Russians will soon be among the healthiest, well adjusted and best informed people on the planet."

 

[The Clamp]

16m ago 21:40
The UK’s Secretary of State for Transport Grant Shapps announced on Twitter that the UK government can detain any Russian aircraft that enters UK airspace, following an earlier ban on Russian planes in UK airspace.

From Shapps Twitter account:

BREAKING: I have made it a criminal offence for ANY Russian aircraft to enter UK airspace and now HMG can detain these jets. We will suffocate Putin’s cronies’ ability to continue living as normal while thousands of innocent people die.

 

[dazzer6666]

Fair play to McDonalds, they are still going to pay their 62,000 staff in Russia………annual revenue is $2bn so it’s a massive deal for them to shut

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

we on the other hand couldn't handle a rumour that toilet rolls were running out...

Reportedly in Irkutsk, Russia and presumably elsewhere in Russia, so it turns out they are much like us:

 

[dazzer6666]

16m ago 21:40
The UK’s Secretary of State for Transport Grant Shapps announced on Twitter that the UK government can detain any Russian aircraft that enters UK airspace, following an earlier ban on Russian planes in UK airspace.

From Shapps Twitter account:

BREAKING: I have made it a criminal offence for ANY Russian aircraft to enter UK airspace and now HMG can detain these jets. We will suffocate Putin’s cronies’ ability to continue living as normal while thousands of innocent people die.

It’s in relation to this (DT extract) :

A private jet linked to a Russian oligarch friend of Roman Abramovich was “impounded” on the orders of Grant Shapps amid claims it may have breached a flight ban over the UK.

The Transport Secretary revoked the flight permit of the private jet after it landed at Farnborough Airport in Hampshire to allow government officials to establish its links to Eugene Shvidler, the billionaire oil businessman.

It followed a restriction of flying order signed last week by Mr Shapps – who wrote exclusively for The Telegraph, below – which barred any Russian aircraft owned by, registered to or chartered by anyone resident in Russia from flying over, or landing, in the UK.

Mr Shvidler is said to be a close friend and a business partner of Mr Abramovich, the billionaire owner of Chelsea Football Club whose private jet, nicknamed The Bandit, left the UK last week before the Government was able to implement its order.

Government sources admitted that it was not clear if the jet or Mr Shvidler falls within the definition under the sanction order. However, Mr Shapps considered officials should investigate further.

A source said: “Grant is determined to use every lever at his disposal to clamp down on jet-setting Russian oligarchs. But it’s not easy – the real owners of private jets can be hidden by third-country registrations and shell companies.

“If there is reasonable cause to suspect Russian involvement, we will work within the law to prevent that aircraft from flying.”

 

[amexer]

I have a very vested interest with many family members in Mariupol and friends in various cities, 4 of whom are fighting.

I agree about NATO and bases but not neutral or demilitarised in the sense Russia demand. Ukraine should be armed to the teeth after this incursion, to make them an even more bitter pill to try and swallow.

But Putin won't accept, he thinks he's on a messianic mission on multiple fronts. He wants a vassal puppet that also can't join EU (the will of citizens).

Plus the obvious, Putin cannot be trusted

Because of your close ties take a lot of interest in your views. .But please tell me do you think Ukraine have ability to hold on and then Putin gives up and retreats like he did in Afghanistan

 

[Eric the meek]

13 days in and Putin has lost the war, lost the peace, lost most of his mates, lost control of all the others, lost Russia's war chest, lost Russia's future oil income, and can't even get a Big Mac as comfort food. We've all made mistakes in our lives, but Christ, that's a proper fvck up.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Because of your close ties take a lot of interest in your views. .But please tell me do you think Ukraine have ability to hold on and then Putin gives up and retreats like he did in Afghanistan

Brezhnev took the Soviets into Afghanistan, Gorbachev took them out. Putin would have been in the KGB still at that time. Gorbachev was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, a very different leader to what had come before and came after.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Because of your close ties take a lot of interest in your views. .But please tell me do you think Ukraine have ability to hold on and then Putin gives up and retreats like he did in Afghanistan

Putin wasn't in charge when USSR withdrew from Afghanistan - that was Gorbachev.

In fact Gorbachev still lives in Moscow.

Perhaps they can go back to having him in charge ?

 

[peterward]

Reportedly in Irkutsk, Russia and presumably elsewhere in Russia, so it turns out they are much like us:

View attachment 145875

Got to get some bog rolls bought.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

13 days in and Putin has lost the war, lost the peace, lost most of his mates, lost control of all the others, lost Russia's war chest, lost Russia's future oil income, and can't even get a Big Mac as comfort food. We've all made mistakes in our lives, but Christ, that's a proper fvck up.

I hope you're right. You can still run on, quite a while, on steroids, vodka and coke. Apparently. Regular changes of blood a la Keef Richards helps also. And lashings of prostitutes.

It's what they do

 

[The Clamp]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-50265870

 

[peterward]

Because of your close ties take a lot of interest in your views. .But please tell me do you think Ukraine have ability to hold on and then Putin gives up and retreats like he did in Afghanistan

We're just making assumptions, not kowing which each side may or may not do next. A news programme I watched earlier on CNN, had a women in Kharkiv, saying the Russians are making a fake video that showed the Ukrainians were planning on blowing up the Zaporoziya nuclear plant, also talk that would Putin use tactical nukes? I doubt personally.

If more cities get flattened and mass murder continues, would the publics calls for a no fly zone become to loud to ignore?

A lot of variables. But I do think Ukraine can win, the longer it goes, the tougher it gets for Putin, the longer it goes the nearer he gets to running out of cash. But what must happen is a call to the Chinese, that if they try and loan money or help him avoid sanctions, they will themselves be targetted, as they cannot be allowed to try and help Putin get off the hook or for the sanctions not to work,

Most likely in the nearer term, is Putin get more agressive, getting more violent, destroys more cities and lives, hoping for an opportunity to present itself. He's gone all in with the farm, the car and every coin in his pocket. Its all or nothing. We have to make sure its nothing, by continually giving aid and helping in every way to drag this on to the point where pulling out is the only effective option left. He wont be in Ukraine the day his money finishes, he'll bail before that long. Ukraine need to keep him bogged down until he bleeds dry.

The real key to all this though, as hard as it is, is getting truthful information into Russia. The longer it goes, the more info trickles in, the bigger the pressure in Russia.

 

[Poojah]

To add balance, Sir Roger Gale is a Tory MP.

[tweet]1501151658235027460[/tweet]

https://twitter.com/SirRogerGale/status/1501151658235027460

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-50265870

Weirdly attempted to post precisely this video, but the site or my phone is playing up for me tonight.

Prescient, or patently obvious to anyone who was giving it a moment’s thought at the time? I don’t know, but I have a lot of time for Gorbachev.

 

[birthofanorange]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-50265870

The good ol' bad ol' days.

Always had a soft spot for him.

 

[The Clamp]

Weirdly attempted to post precisely this video, but the site or my phone is playing up for me tonight.

Prescient, or patently obvious to anyone who was giving it a moment’s thought at the time? I don’t know, but I have a lot of time for Gorbachev.

He was a very calming influence for his tenure. Sadly, so much of his work has been undone over the last twenty years.

 

[Eric the meek]

I hope you're right. You can still run on, quite a while, on steroids, vodka and coke. Apparently. Regular changes of blood a la Keef Richards helps also. And lashings of prostitutes.

It's what they do

Look, I've fvcked up in my time, but honesty is always the best policy. Admit everything. The difference between Putin and me, is that I would immediately fess up and say 'It's a fair cop. We all make mistakes', but Putin still believes he hasn't done anything wrong, is justified in his actions, and any consequences are someone else's fault. That's his weakness. He doesn't take responsibility. It's a character flaw. IMO.

 

[birthofanorange]

He was a very calming influence for his tenure. Sadly, so much of his work has been undone over the last twenty years.

A lot of folk weren't around to feel the palpable relief of Glasnost, or had tears streaming down their faces (as I did) when the Berlin Wall fell. The younger ones never really felt that glimmer of Hope, I feel, but then what you don't know doesn't hurt you.
Apparently.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Look, I've fvcked up in my time, but honesty is always the best policy. Admit everything. The difference between Putin and me, is that I would immediately fess up and say 'It's a fair cop. We all make mistakes', but Putin still believes he hasn't done anything wrong, is justified in his actions, and any consequences are someone else's fault. That's his weakness. He doesn't take responsibility. It's a character flaw. IMO.

I agree.

He's looking to me like a somewhat (but insufficiently) smarter Russian version of Raoul Moat.

 

[Flex Your Head]

You know when you've just caught up with 2 days' worth of posts

I have real concerns that Polish Migs being painted in Ukrainian colours and sent in to the action, backed by the US, will be seen as an unacceptable escalation by Putin. And that will give him an excuse to escalate things too.

Defence expert on the new Andrew Marr LBC show this evening said that folk are absolutely right to be concerned that he will launch a nuke(s). Maybe one of the 'strategic' smaller ones, and only against Ukraine (I don't mean 'only' like that, obviously), but a nuke nonetheless, and one which would cause immense death and devastation. Probably in the west of the country, I'd have thought.

He is clearly losing the battle on the ground - awesome Ukrainian resilience - so what are his options? To meekly climb down? Sad to say I don't see that happening.