[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Eric the meek]

Well I clicked your link with the search on the BBC, and the last result is 4th Feb. I would think maybe it has some additional relevance since then. Like I said, I've been watching the coverage on the BBC. It's not been discussed.

I also clicked on it, and there were 29 pages of results from a search on Nato expansion!

As Nato hasn't expanded since 4 Feb, what would you expect there to be an article about ? Why would you expect it to be discussed 'right now'?

 

[The Clamp]

Well I clicked your link with the search on the BBC, and the last result is 4th Feb. I would think maybe it has some additional relevance since then. Like I said, I've been watching the coverage on the BBC. It's not been discussed.

If it’s not being discussed it’s maybe because it’s not relevant. It is not Russia’s decision. Unless of course you believe Russia has a legitimate claim to rule Ukraine. Which would be an insane point of view.

But it has been discussed recently on the BBC. I almost exclusively watch BBC news and it was discussed regularly in the build up to the invasion. I know it has, I’ve watched it.

 

[Here'sWally]

I also clicked on it, and there were 29 pages of results from a search on Nato expansion!

As Nato hasn't expanded since 4 Feb, what would you expect there to be an article about ? Why would you expect it to be discussed 'right now'?

I am talking about in the coverage of this current conflict. Not ever.

 

[The Clamp]

I am talking about in the coverage of this current conflict. Not ever.

It has been discussed. In this current conflict. On the BBC.

 

[dazzer6666]

Klitschko brothers live on BBC news now……..

 

[Eric the meek]

Is this a good time to add that I googled 'last country to join Nato' and got back:

The most recent member states to be added to NATO are Montenegro on 5 June 2017 and North Macedonia on 27 March 2020 ?

So, no Nato expansion for nearly two years then.

 

[danielson81]

Just when you thought the Russians couldn't get any lower..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/wor...1f74ee980bea49f4b7ac17&pinned_post_type=share

When I saw reports and photographs on Tuesday suggesting that primary school children had been arrested by police in Moscow for laying flowers at the Ukrainian embassy and holding signs saying “No to war” I refused to believe it was real.

But now it has been confirmed by the Nobel prize-winning newspaper Novaya Gazeta. In an update the newspaper says the children have since been released.

The images show the children with officers behind metal bars, perhaps in a police vehicle, and then in a police station, holding their flowers and placards.

The Kremlin appears to be taking increasingly draconian measures to try to keep a grip on its war narrative.

 

[Eric the meek]

I am talking about in the coverage of this current conflict. Not ever.

Again, you don't answer the question. Have you ever thought of going into politics?

 

[Here'sWally]

What I have been trying to get across is how I think Russians view this.

When we went into Iraq and Afghanistan we were shown the humanitarian/security need to intervene, and the less horrific side of the consequences. I imagine Russians were shown the oil reserves and messages about U.S./Western world domination and the more horrific side of the consequences.

Now, Russians are being shown the humanitarian/security need to intervene in Ukraine, and the less horrific side of the consequences. We are being shown messages about Russian world domination and the more horrific side of the consequences.

For Russians the West is a malign influence in the world, and they are a benign influence in the world.

For us, Russia is a malign influence in the world, and we are a benign influence in the world.

The truth is probably we, and Russia, are probably neither one nor the other. The truth is that probably there is a geopolitical struggle going on between the West and Russia, and other smaller weaker nations are the ones who pay the price of that. I think that is the sad reality.

 

[Bold Seagull]

You will find that NATO has expanded because countries surrounding Russia want to join it. Countries like Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland etc WANTED to join NATO. Ukraine also wants to join NATO. Can you think of a reason why that might be? Go on. Give it a go....

Well, it then goes back to the discussion of whether NATO, an organisation formed at the start of the Cold War should have been disbanded and something reformed in it's place. As a military alliance it has always seen by the West as a natural progression to peace from the end of WWII, but to those outside of NATO, it's not seen in the same light. Of course those countries wanted to join as a defence against Russia but when your defence is seen as a direct threat to the country you want to defend against, it is a poor balance for peace.

 

[The Clamp]

What I have been trying to get across is how I think Russians view this.

When we went into Iraq and Afghanistan we were shown the humanitarian/security need to intervene, and the less horrific side of the consequences. I imagine Russians were shown the oil reserves and messages about U.S./Western world domination and the more horrific side of the consequences.

Now, Russians are being shown the humanitarian/security need to intervene in Ukraine, and the less horrific side of the consequences. We are being shown messages about Russian world domination and the more horrific side of the consequences.

For Russians the West is a malign influence in the world, and they are a benign influence in the world.

For us, Russia is a malign influence in the world, and we are a benign influence in the world.

The truth is probably we, and Russia, are probably neither one nor the other. The truth is that probably there is a geopolitical struggle going on between the West and Russia, and other smaller weaker nations are the ones who pay the price of that. I think that is the sad reality.

A puzzling point of view. In what way does Russia invading Ukraine stem from the West’s attitude to Russia?

Make no mistake, Russsia has done this for their own reasons, in isolation of anything but their own interests.

While I think all narratives should be questioned, I find it bizarre that is the conclusion you have come to.

Have I got this correct;

Russia has invaded Ukraine because of tensions with the West?

 

[Here'sWally]

EDIT: Nevermind

 

[Notters]

Klitschko brothers live on BBC news now……..

To paraphrase, "thank you for your help but we need more weapons, lots more weapons".

A puzzling point of view. In what way does Russia invading Ukraine stem from the West’s attitude to Russia?

Make no mistake, Russsia has done this for their own reasons, in isolation of anything but their own interests.

While I think all narratives should be questioned, I find it bizarre that is the conclusion you have come to.

Have I got this correct;

Russia has invaded Ukraine because of tensions with the West?

...and in addition we do at leave have some freedom of press, and freedom of expression, and to believe what we want to believe, in the west - however flawed.

 

[Giraffe]

I know this is wrong but I am now at the point where I can't look at the BBC news updates and twitter updates. It is too upsetting seeing people's lives needlessly ruined like this, or worse taken completely. Little children being trapped, injured, homeless. And there is seemingly very little we can do. We must do more though.

 

[Igzilla]

Russian primary school children detained by police for laying a "No to war" wreath at the Ukrainian Embassy.

[tweet]1498784549639229444[/tweet]

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Just when you thought the Russians couldn't get any lower..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/wor...1f74ee980bea49f4b7ac17&pinned_post_type=share

When I saw reports and photographs on Tuesday suggesting that primary school children had been arrested by police in Moscow for laying flowers at the Ukrainian embassy and holding signs saying “No to war” I refused to believe it was real.

But now it has been confirmed by the Nobel prize-winning newspaper Novaya Gazeta. In an update the newspaper says the children have since been released.

The images show the children with officers behind metal bars, perhaps in a police vehicle, and then in a police station, holding their flowers and placards.

The Kremlin appears to be taking increasingly draconian measures to try to keep a grip on its war narrative.

What I have been trying to get across is how I think Russians view this.

When we went into Iraq and Afghanistan we were shown the humanitarian/security need to intervene, and the less horrific side of the consequences. I imagine Russians were shown the oil reserves and messages about U.S./Western world domination and the more horrific side of the consequences.

Now, Russians are being shown the humanitarian/security need to intervene in Ukraine, and the less horrific side of the consequences. We are being shown messages about Russian world domination and the more horrific side of the consequences.

For Russians the West is a malign influence in the world, and they are a benign influence in the world.

For us, Russia is a malign influence in the world, and we are a benign influence in the world.

The truth is probably we, and Russia, are probably neither one nor the other. The truth is that probably there is a geopolitical struggle going on between the West and Russia, and other smaller weaker nations are the ones who pay the price of that. I think that is the sad reality.

My simplistic opinion is that Putin is a malign influence in Russia.

 

[Eric the meek]

Well, it then goes back to the discussion of whether NATO, an organisation formed at the start of the Cold War should have been disbanded and something reformed in it's place. As a military alliance it has always seen by the West as a natural progression to peace from the end of WWII, but to those outside of NATO, it's not seen in the same light. Of course those countries wanted to join as a defence against Russia but when your defence is seen as a direct threat to the country you want to defend against, it is a poor balance for peace.

I believe it would have been a good 'balance' for Ukraine, had they been in it. It seems to have been a good idea for the Baltic countries, Poland as well. In addition, the invasion of Ukraine will inevitably lead to more NATO, not less NATO.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I know this is wrong but I am now at the point where I can't look at the BBC news updates and twitter updates. It is too upsetting seeing people's lives needlessly ruined like this, or worse taken completely. Little children being trapped, injured, homeless. And there is seemingly very little we can do. We must do more though.

I agree. This is a report from Lewis Goodall at the Polish/Ukraine border. Give as much as you can and as often as you can to the Red Cross or Save the Children funds.

[tweet]1498975492032061440[/tweet]

 

[Stat Brother]

 

[Bozza]

I know this is wrong but I am now at the point where I can't look at the BBC news updates and twitter updates. It is too upsetting seeing people's lives needlessly ruined like this, or worse taken completely. Little children being trapped, injured, homeless. And there is seemingly very little we can do. We must do more though.

It's really affecting me today too.

The loss of life - on both sides - is utterly horrific, but the images of towns and citiies being utterly destroyed, already in ruins, is just so unfathomable to understand. What benefit, for anyone, can be served by this?

Whatever the intended end-game, sticking in a Putin-puppet leader or whatever, large parts of the country's infrastructure is going to be utterly trashed.