beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,014
apparently Russia invading separatist region doesnt count as a full invasion. so presumably that means a damp, not full response from the west. and maybe this was the plan.
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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)
- Thread starter vegster
- Start date
Curious Orange
Punxsatawney Phil
The Russian army has been in the 'separatist' regions since 2014, they've just started wearing their uniforms rather than being 'volunteers'.
- Aug 24, 2020
- 7,095
OK, I'll buy that. Save your BFS (Big fycking sanctions) for when the Russians invade a place they haven't actually invaded before, at least not in recent history (they've invaded Ukraine before, but that was in historical, imperial times, pre-revolution, so it doesn't count).
So we just give them a taster menu of what to expect should they come for a full banquet. Then with each transgression, we ramp up the sanctions, until they take notice.
Or not, as the case may be.
Perhaps we should let them have a crib list of our planned programme of sanctions, so they can decide which invasion is worth doing.
Insel affe
HellBilly
A cynic might think, the west has no appetite for confrontation with Russia, actually I am going to reappraise my stance on this incident, to don't care, Russia just wants a little bit of the Ukraine, and what has the Ukraine actually done for me anyway.
Nothing to see here, offshore banking in Guernsey and Jersey etc will continue.
#moneytalksandthereisnobiggerindustrythanwar
Doc Lynam
I hate the Daily Mail
- Jun 19, 2011
- 7,346
Ⓩ-Ⓐ-Ⓜ-Ⓞ-Ⓡ-Ⓐ
Hove / Παρος
Vodka is more Polish than Russian to be honest, so not sure it'll help I'm afraid!
The Lemming Stomper
Under the flag
Where's Biden disappeared to
Having a snooze (NAP)
Doc Lynam
I hate the Daily Mail
- Jun 19, 2011
- 7,346
Where's Biden disappeared to
Probably working and in discussions with his team and other countries around the world.
Uncle C
Well-known member
I think the time is nigh for Putin to face a vote of no confidence from the Russian people.
That will trigger a general election which may resolve this high-risk impasse
You do know about Russian elections etc ?
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It’s a concerning point you raise. If you go in too deep, too early with sanctions then ultimately you put Putin, who is never going to voluntarily pull out of this madness, in a position where he has nothing to lose.
Already sanctioned to the hilt, he can push further into Ukraine and beyond knowing that all the west has left in its locker is to allow the precession to continue (which we cannot) or intervene militarily (which would most likely have disastrous consequences for the planet).
I don’t like where this is headed, and just like this time two years ago we are seeing major problems of global significance emerge to our east, without many having considered the seriousness of what might be facing us in the weeks and months ahead.
Insel affe
HellBilly
Yeah, either that or he is playing hungry hippos at the local Griswold care home.
Badger Boy
Mr Badger
- Jan 28, 2016
- 3,658
Shouldn't he just be blasting forth with incoherent nonsense on social media? That's presidential!
Being diplomatic and discussing solutions with other nations isn't very reality TV, no wonder it offends some people.
vegster
Sanity Clause
- May 5, 2008
- 28,272
- Thread starter
- #636
Very poor UK attempt at sanctions. We have sanctioned 3 individuals who have already been sanctioned by the US a couple of years back which has not changed Putin's recent direction anyway. Also announcing a " Barrage " of sanctions to come against Russia merely gives the rest of the Kremlin Oligarchs a head start to feverishly start transferring assets if they can. Putin calling all the shots now and this will continue until he gets the whole of Ukraine or takes most of it and shells the rest of it to rubble then digs in .... and does what he is doing now again in 5 years time.
Neville's Breakfast
Well-known member
Putin wants a demilitarization of Ukraine 
That’s a bit like Germany calling for a demilitarization of Poland in 1939.
That’s a bit like Germany calling for a demilitarization of Poland in 1939.
Machiavelli
Well-known member
This is where blind nationalism leads to. Putin might be leading the current charge and about to reveal its full horrors, but there are plenty of other scoundrels who have resorted to the last refuge, including our current incumbent.
Sirnormangall
Well-known member
- Sep 21, 2017
- 3,178
I’d imagine that when they started the military planning that they also started economic planning ( if not before) - I’d bet that much of it has already been moved. Hang on tight for even greater fuel prices.
Putin wants a demilitarization of Ukraine
That’s a bit like Germany calling for a demilitarization of Poland in 1939.
It is entirely reasonable and a good solution for everyone.
Anyway, probably too late.
Some thoughts:
It seems that a war will be the case... how it will look like is difficult to tell. The most likely outcome is a low intensity asymmetrical war, but we'll know soon enough.
Is it preventable? Probably not. Russia wants Ukraine in its sphere of influence, and the West wants the opposite, as well as a brand new conflict for the thirsty war profiteers. To what extent? World War III? I very much doubt it - too intricate and quite needless.
Those profiting from this war will - as usual - be the banks, arms and energy companies, as well as the state of China - when we need to sell our societies in order to build bigger bombs and what not, China will be ready to buy. They are doing it the soft way. As long as they have a say, which will nowadays always be the case, full-scale war of the old type is unlikely.
Was it ever preventable? Yes, I do believe so. Ukraine had a decent relation to both the East and the West when we decided to fund a state coup in 2013-14. We paid substantial money to create a campaign to get rid of their democratically elected leader with the US also "recommending" who to appoint as the next Ukrainian leader.
For the umpteenth time, our greed created a scenario that was always going to end in blood. Ukraine had a slow and seemingly natural "westernisation" process going - the main obstacle preventing them from joining some ten years ago was the costs; £100m upwards to adapt to EU regulations. Ukraine is not a rich country. We didnt accept the hesitation. Instead we funded "alternative media" in Ukraine, promoting nationalist and even Nazi organisations to go out and demand that the democratically elected president leave. Not to talk about the yankee military bases...
Some bad mistakes among many. Imagine Russia spending money on eg English media to tell neo-Nazis and far-right nationalists to get armed and take the streets in order to get rid of the government and then not much later installing a few military bases over in Horsham. Would some be happy? Absolutely, getting rid of a buffalo demagogue. Would some be less than happy? Yes, foreign powers promoting a state coup in your country is probably not a great feeling. Happy or unhappy - it would interrupt any "natural" process going on and create a very sensitive and divisive environment. The West-supported overthrowing of the Ukrainian government did not help the West, the Russians or the Ukrainians - though the war profiteers might have been happy...