[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Dr Bandler]

Shells allegedly going off today in residential areas, a car bomb outside the DNR head office........ and for 8 years Ukraine has maintained its defensive posture without firing, and yet today with 190K Russian troops all around the country, fully trained to invade at the drop of a hat, with lots of specific intelligence on such a types of false flag being made to fabricate a pretext......

Ukrainian forces got inside Donetsk let off a car bomb and fired shells into the city??


What kind of brainless half wit buys his absolute BS

Sorry this is simply not true. We have friends who lived in Donetsk and the city was shelled by the Ukrainian side regularly for years. Eventually they had to move their business and home. The truth is both sides stink and no one cares about the ordinary people. However, please get your facts straight and don't believe all of one side's propaganda.

 

[Eric the meek]

Yes they did, they took some concentration camp prisoners, put them in Polish Uniforms, shot them then claimed they'd attacked a German barracks in Germany.

Soviets/Russians have always used this tactic, they used it as a pretext to invade peaceful Finland in 1939

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelling_of_Mainila

I wish someone would start a Russian language media organisation (similar to the lies and disinformation of RT), and simply tell the truth of all of Russia malignent actions to a Russian speakers.....

All the garbage now is for their consumption, to brainwash them with lies

Your arguments, and links to articles, to help us understand the Russian psyche, and learn from their history, are absolutely - excellent.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Absolute amateurs.

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[Solid at the back]

BBC - "The US is prepared to unleash major sanctions that would inhibit Russia's ability to import technology from other countries, including China, according to a top US economic official"

I'm not clued up on this, but can anyone explain how the US can stop Russia importing directly from China?

Aren't Russia and China allies, and so would do the opposite?

 

[peterward]

Sorry this is simply not true. We have friends who lived in Donetsk and the city was shelled by the Ukrainian side regularly for years. Eventually they had to move their business and home. The truth is both sides stink and no one cares about the ordinary people. However, please get your facts straight and don't believe all of one side's propaganda.

I know people that live in Donetsk too and others in the DNR in Novoazovsk and family close by to DNR in Mariupol, and I don't dispute that in the early days Ukraine was firing on russian military in donetsk, branded as local militia or tourists... But they have maintained defensive posture for years. There's been numerous minor escalations when Putin wants something, but Ukraine firing indiscriminately into Donetsk civilian districts is a construct of the Kremlin. To maintain the anti Ukrainian rhetoric inside the DNR, there's been many low grade provocations blamed on Ukraine and never any evidence. Putin has murdered or blown up many of the early commanders of the DNR like Motorola and Givi and and the former PM of the DNR Alexander Zakharchenko conveniently killed by a bomb as he walked into his security protected favourite restaurant all of which is also blamed on Ukraine.

Ukraine was invaded, local pro Russian idiots were promoted as proxy puppets, Russia's Military took control of the border and region, killing almost 14k civilians and even those who had fought for Russia who knew too much.

It consistently shells Ukrainian military and civilian infrastructure and has used false flags locally to maintain anger and anti Ukraine sentiment in the local population.

Are Ukraine perfect?. No of course not and war is a dirty business, but I am entirely convinced that Ukraine is mainly defensive against a ruthless, deceitful and murderous occupation of Ukrainian land planned, conducted and controlled ultimately by Putin.

They are not "as bad as each other".

The point however was made in the wider context, that as Ukraine hadn't attacked the DNR in years, why would it start today with 190k russians on the border.

Or is that propaganda?

 

[Wardy's twin]

I know people that live in Donetsk too and others in the DNR in Novoazovsk and family close by to DNR in Mariupol, and I don't dispute that in the early days Ukraine was firing on russian military in donetsk, branded as local militia or tourists... But they have maintained defensive posture for years. There's been numerous minor escalations when Putin wants something, but Ukraine firing indiscriminately into Donetsk civilian districts is a construct of the Kremlin. To maintain the anti Ukrainian rhetoric inside the DNR, there's been many low grade provocations blamed on Ukraine and never any evidence. Putin has murdered or blown up many of the early commanders of the DNR like Motorola and Givi and and the former PM of the DNR Alexander Zakharchenko conveniently killed by a bomb as he walked into his security protected favourite restaurant all of which is also blamed on Ukraine.

Ukraine was invaded, local pro Russian idiots were promoted as proxy puppets, Russia's Military took control of the border and region, killing almost 14k civilians and even those who had fought for Russia who knew too much.

It consistently shells Ukrainian military and civilian infrastructure and has used false flags locally to maintain anger and anti Ukraine sentiment in the local population.

Are Ukraine perfect?. No of course not and war is a dirty business, but I am entirely convinced that Ukraine is mainly defensive against a ruthless, deceitful and murderous occupation of Ukrainian land planned, conducted and controlled ultimately by Putin.

They are not "as bad as each other".

The point however was made in the wider context, that as Ukraine hadn't attacked the DNR in years, why would it start today with 190k russians on the border.

Or is that propaganda?

The only good news I heard was that parts of the army are against the activity in Ukraine as they see China as the real threat i.e. it will move to take some of the resource areas in the far east of Russia.

 

[knocky1]

The only good news I heard was that parts of the army are against the activity in Ukraine as they see China as the real threat i.e. it will move to take some of the resource areas in the far east of Russia.

They've both just hand jobbed each other at the Seb Coe Winter Olympics. Worrying times even for those on the IOC payroll.

 

[knocky1]

...

 

[heathgate]

BBC - "The US is prepared to unleash major sanctions that would inhibit Russia's ability to import technology from other countries, including China, according to a top US economic official"

I'm not clued up on this, but can anyone explain how the US can stop Russia importing directly from China?

Aren't Russia and China allies, and so would do the opposite?

They are not allies, they do the old public handshakes from time to time just to ruffle the US... but... they are ideologically opposed. They may exchange low level tech and intelligence for appearances sake, but China will not, and cannot allow a rogue Putin and his sidekicks to jeopardise the Chinese export market, they need the West at this point in time, mainly because their internal market isn't yet strong enough to support their global military, political and economic expansion plans.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[pb21]

Absolute amateurs.

You say that, but I would say they are fully aware and our doing it on purpose to rub noses in it. A bit like how they said they had nothing to do with Sailsbury.

 

[Wardy's twin]

They've both just hand jobbed each other at the Seb Coe Winter Olympics. Worrying times even for those on the IOC payroll.

Don't think its quite that simple - neither like the west but they have different agendas as China's economy is driven by manufacturing rather than raw resources.

The bigger worry is if Putin gets away with it then China might attack Taiwan and or expand further into the South China sea.

 

[Solid at the back]

So Biden says Russia "intends to attack in the coming days" and will include an assault on Kyiv.

Are they really going to bomb and kill hundreds of thousands of civilians? Feels like we're going back in time.

 

[atomised]

So Biden says Russia "intends to attack in the coming days" and will include an assault on Kyiv.

Are they really going to bomb and kill hundreds of thousands of civilians? Feels like we're going back in time.

Scary isn't it? The chatter seems to be getting louder though.

 

[peterward]

So Biden says Russia "intends to attack in the coming days" and will include an assault on Kyiv.

Are they really going to bomb and kill hundreds of thousands of civilians? Feels like we're going back in time.

I'd guess they'd try to surround it, collapse the goverment and try to install pro Moscow puppet proxies.

One thing is for sure, if Putin can get control, Freedom of the population and their aspirations to move towards the EU will be brutally repressed. Blinken mentioned yesterday, that Russia has plans to target certain groups.

Almost certainly they will be all the pro western Ukrainians and political parties, who will be imprisoned or have a sudden mystery fatal illness.

 

[Eric the meek]

If anyone still doesn't believe the idea of a 'false flag' - that Russia is fabricating a pretext for invading Ukraine, the BBC disabuses them of their fantasy this evening:

'As Ukraine accuses Russia of trying to create a fake crisis in the breakaway eastern region of Donbas, the BBC has obtained evidence that casts doubt on claims made by pro-Russian separatists that a Ukrainian assault is imminent.

Earlier today, the leadership of the pro-Russian Donetsk and Luhansk rebel republics in eastern Ukraine released videos giving details of the evacuation of residents.

In one of the videos, the leader claims that, due to Ukrainian shelling, the order has been given to evacuate civilians, saying: “Today, Friday 18 February…".

Following reports on social media, the BBC has checked the metadata of the videos posted, and has found that the metadata shows they were recorded on Wednesday 16 February - two days ago, before the recent flare-up in hostilities.

This suggests that the escalation was pre-planned'.

So the video was recorded on 16 February, but contains the words 'Today, Friday 18 February'. It was planned, premeditated and was a deliberate attempt to mislead.

Just as the whole world suspected.

 

[Mancgull]

I think Biden is playing the right game with his ‘I’m convinced Russia will invade’. It’s a challenge to Putin to prove him wrong. Let’s hope Putin wants to ‘prove Biden wrong’.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Really not long until end of the Winter Olympics now - although China did originally request no wars until after the Paralympics as well.

I'm sure Putin waits now until Sunday night at least.

 

[Icy Gull]

Looks like the teams are about to run out after a match delay…..with any luck the weather will cause a cancellation

 

[Dr Bandler]

I know people that live in Donetsk too and others in the DNR in Novoazovsk and family close by to DNR in Mariupol, and I don't dispute that in the early days Ukraine was firing on russian military in donetsk, branded as local militia or tourists... But they have maintained defensive posture for years. There's been numerous minor escalations when Putin wants something, but Ukraine firing indiscriminately into Donetsk civilian districts is a construct of the Kremlin. To maintain the anti Ukrainian rhetoric inside the DNR, there's been many low grade provocations blamed on Ukraine and never any evidence. Putin has murdered or blown up many of the early commanders of the DNR like Motorola and Givi and and the former PM of the DNR Alexander Zakharchenko conveniently killed by a bomb as he walked into his security protected favourite restaurant all of which is also blamed on Ukraine.

Ukraine was invaded, local pro Russian idiots were promoted as proxy puppets, Russia's Military took control of the border and region, killing almost 14k civilians and even those who had fought for Russia who knew too much.

It consistently shells Ukrainian military and civilian infrastructure and has used false flags locally to maintain anger and anti Ukraine sentiment in the local population.

Are Ukraine perfect?. No of course not and war is a dirty business, but I am entirely convinced that Ukraine is mainly defensive against a ruthless, deceitful and murderous occupation of Ukrainian land planned, conducted and controlled ultimately by Putin.

They are not "as bad as each other".

The point however was made in the wider context, that as Ukraine hadn't attacked the DNR in years, why would it start today with 190k russians on the border.

Or is that propaganda?

My friend, if you also have friends in the region, you will know that if you have a business there you either pay Ukrainian or Russian MAFIA to stay afloat. Ukraine has the same model of Oligarchs and corruption as Russia, with some Nazi militia thrown in. I am not taking Russia's side - I know only too well from first hand experience what goes on there, but I just think it is wrong to paint Ukraine as a country that operates in a similar way to Western ones, and hence is the "good guy" in all of this. It is too simplistic.

As for the shelling of Donetsk, as far as I know it has continued sporadically up to the present day. It was a few years ago now that our friends de-camped their home and factory to the Kharkiv area. By the way, they have a disabled daughter, and it is illuminating to see Ukraine's provision for, and attitude towards, disabled people. Let's just say that parts of the world have developed at different speeds. Let us hope that they, and everyone else in the area, can find peace, security and prosperity.

One last thought on why I find it all so depressing. The west have definitely tried to take advantage of the situation by encouraging unrest and the overthrow of Yanukovich to try and expand NATO influence; Russia has seen this as encirclement. How did we think they would respond. The silly geopolitical games played by the shadowy figures behind US politicians appears so primitive and outdated in today's world. The fact that our politicians then simplistically parrot their story is wearing thin. We should all be thinking and dealing with the genuine threats we face like climate change, population growth and displacement and the economic ascendency of China, rather than playing yesterday's ego driven games.

Cheers.

 

[dangull]

I agree, how would the USA react to the Warsaw Pact extended to Canada and Mexico?