Rohan Ince

[sussex_guy2k2]

Please point me towards the HATE for Rohan Ince.

Two things.
1) That's all you've taken from that post?
2) MejonaNo12 (for example)

 

[Billy the Fish]

I know there's a lot of hate for Ince on here, particularly from certain posters, but here's just a few more statistics to disagree with your (totally subjective) points.

Last season, when Ince played very regularly, he was dispossessed less than once a game (0.9 times), and he made less than 1 unsuccessful touch per game (0.7 times) i.e. he lost the ball due to a bad touch.

That's less than Kayal, Crofts, March, Calderon, Bruno, Baldock, Texeira when he was here, plus most of the rest of the squad that was here last year... In fact, of the current regulars, the only players with better numbers are Stockdale (a goalkeeper who rarely gets pressurised), Greer and Dunk (our two centre-backs who rarely venture past the half way line) and Stephens. Basically, people spouting rubbish about "his first touch always leads to his second touch being a tackle" - well, the numbers disagree.

And if you want proof of what he does, go on whoscored.com and take a look at his defensive statistics in our team for last season and the season before (you know, when he was a regular). They'll give you an idea about what role he has to play in a team that appreciates his abilities.

I'm certainly not one of the people saying that Ince is rubbish, but I think it's worth pointing out that you can't cherry pick some favourable stats and claim they are proof of a players ability, football just doesn't work like that.

 

[Mellotron]

Two things.
1) That's all you've taken from that post?
2) MejonaNo12 (for example)

Perhaps his ball retention was slightly better last season, however it's very selective, as he's been here multiple years - I'd also like to see how they calculated it. The point is - You don't even need to be that into football to see he is NOT comfortable at all on the ball. Full stop. A lot of people who rate him even acknowledge this.

Again, show me the hate. There's a MASSIVE difference between someone not rating someone's ability at football and HATING them.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

I'm certainly not one of the people saying that Ince is rubbish, but I think it's worth pointing out that you can't cherry pick some favourable stats and claim they are proof of a players ability, football just doesn't work like that.

yet you can put forward a totally subjective opinion without anything to back it up and claim it to be fact as so many have done on this thread?

The criticisms of him on this thread so far have been "poor first touch", "first touch means second touch is a tackle", "doesn't add anything to our team" etc etc. Basically, these criticisms are being undermined by THE FACTS i.e. reality.

Would you have preferred I debated their baseless opinions with my own opinion?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

He was superb one away game, Wigan IIRC

He scored a winner at Charlton.

 

[kjgood]

With some good quality coaching and a long run in a decent team I think he has the capability to become a very good player. No he will never be a Glen Hoddle but how many players that play in the Championship will be? I for one hope he comes back to us.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Perhaps his ball retention was slightly better last season, however it's very selective, as he's been here multiple years - I'd also like to see how they calculated it. The point is - You don't even need to be that into football to see he is NOT comfortable at all on the ball. Full stop. A lot of people who rate him even acknowledge this.

Again, show me the hate. There's a MASSIVE difference between someone not rating someone's ability at football and HATING them.

I apologise - I'll go and edit that one word out of the post just because you're being pedantic.

And your argument is that he improved when he was playing regularly last year, but that I'm being too selective by illustrating his improvement in the areas he's getting criticised for because I've only used one year worth of data to support my argument? If indeed that is your point, it's a baseless one as those putting forward negative points about him aren't putting forward ANYTHING to back up their views other than baseless opinion. The facts show that the criticisms of him, when he's played regularly for him, are baseless.

There are plenty of examples of players who don't look comfortable on the ball, but in actuality they are. For example, Sakho at Liverpool *looks* uncomfortable yet in reality the statistics prove that his passing ability is amongst the best of all defenders in the Premier League. And even then, just because he doesn't look comfortable on the ball to you, doesn't mean there's not a role for him to have in a very good side that appreciate the qualities he brings to them.

Saying that, we live in a country full of people that don't understand what Sergio Busquets does, so I always take other peoples' appreciation of footballers (or their lack of appreciation) with a pinch of salt.

 

[Mellotron]

I apologise - I'll go and edit that one word out of the post just because you're being pedantic.

And your argument is that he improved when he was playing regularly last year, but that I'm being too selective by illustrating his improvement in the areas he's getting criticised for because I've only used one year worth of data to support my argument? If indeed that is your point, it's a baseless one as those putting forward negative points about him aren't putting forward ANYTHING to back up their views other than baseless opinion. The facts show that the criticisms of him, when he's played regularly for him, are baseless.

There are plenty of examples of players who don't look comfortable on the ball, but in actuality they are. For example, Sakho at Liverpool *looks* uncomfortable yet in reality the statistics prove that his passing ability is amongst the best of all defenders in the Premier League. And even then, just because he doesn't look comfortable on the ball to you, doesn't mean there's not a role for him to have in a very good side that appreciate the qualities he brings to them.

Saying that, we live in a country full of people that don't understand what Sergio Busquets does, so I always take other peoples' appreciation of footballers (or their lack of appreciation) with a pinch of salt.

Not pedantic at all, there is a MASSIVE difference between A> Not rating a player, and B> HATING them. There's a huuuuuge difference.

Also, your comments come across INSANELY patronising. I rate Busquets. You've clearly ignored my comments where I said which position I felt Ince could work well in. Read the thread properly then comment.

"My argument that he improved from playing regularly" - I didn't say a SINGLE word of this. I feel like you're responding to someone else. This is bizarre. Very little of what you've said above has ANYTHING to do with my comments in this thread. Actually read them.

 

[Tekanne]

I apologise - I'll go and edit that one word out of the post just because you're being pedantic.

And your argument is that he improved when he was playing regularly last year, but that I'm being too selective by illustrating his improvement in the areas he's getting criticised for because I've only used one year worth of data to support my argument? If indeed that is your point, it's a baseless one as those putting forward negative points about him aren't putting forward ANYTHING to back up their views other than baseless opinion. The facts show that the criticisms of him, when he's played regularly for him, are baseless.

There are plenty of examples of players who don't look comfortable on the ball, but in actuality they are. For example, Sakho at Liverpool *looks* uncomfortable yet in reality the statistics prove that his passing ability is amongst the best of all defenders in the Premier League. And even then, just because he doesn't look comfortable on the ball to you, doesn't mean there's not a role for him to have in a very good side that appreciate the qualities he brings to them.

Saying that, we live in a country full of people that don't understand what Sergio Busquets does, so I always take other peoples' appreciation of footballers (or their lack of appreciation) with a pinch of salt.

Couldn't agree more

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Two things.
1) That's all you've taken from that post?
2) MejonaNo12 (for example)

I've never met Rohan. I'm sure he's a lovely bloke.

I don't think he's very good at football though. If that constitutes "hate" then fair enough.

 

[Billy the Fish]

yet you can put forward a totally subjective opinion without anything to back it up and claim it to be fact as so many have done on this thread?

The criticisms of him on this thread so far have been "poor first touch", "first touch means second touch is a tackle", "doesn't add anything to our team" etc etc. Basically, these criticisms are being undermined by THE FACTS i.e. reality.

Would you have preferred I debated their baseless opinions with my own opinion?

Football is a subjective game, I'd much rather hear someone give a balanced opinion based on what they've seen rather than hide behind some meaningless stats. Where on the pitch is he getting his touches? Is he mobile around the pitch? Is he in the correct position? When he distributes are they all sideways passes? If his job is just to break up play how many tackles is he making? Is he slowing down transition when he wins the ball back? Have we scored a goal as a result of something he did? Has the opposition not scored as a result of something he did? etc etc etc

I don't agree with some of the harsher comments, I think he's a good player in a specific role as an anchor in a midfield three but limited when doing anything else, but they're entitled their opinion. You are backing up your opinion with a meaningless bit of information and presenting it as fact, you are no different to anybody else on this thread.

 

[The Albion Roar]

Somewhere in between mejona's and Mellotron's incessant misery, and Sussex_Guy2k2 optimistically stated stats lies the truth.

In answer to the original question, Rohan Ince is a decent ball-winning player - in the air and on the ground - with a lots of pace, more skill and technical ability than some on here evidently appreciate or acknowledge who can also be clumsy and careless.

Seeing Fulham's defence in action this season, I'd say you've aquired part of what you need to help sort that out.

 

[Mellotron]

Somewhere in between mejona's and Mellotron's incessant misery, and Sussex_Guy2k2 optimistically stated stats lies the truth.

In answer to the original question, Rohan Ince is a decent ball-winning player - in the air and on the ground - with a lots of pace, more skill and technical ability than some on here evidently appreciate or acknowledge who can also be clumsy and careless.

Seeing Fulham's defence in action this season, I'd say you've aquired part of what you need to help sort that out.

No misery here. Ince has some VERY GOOD attributes. However, he lacks the attributes needed to be a decent DM. However (again), he would work well as the "next midfielder forward" in a 3, a workhorse to break up play and distribute it simply to players with more ability on the ball.

Perfectly balanced and reasonable, no?

 

[Baldseagull]

I think he is a good player, will be a great player. Not as weak in the areas that some have suggested he is, but definitely not strong points. We have no one else that makes as many successful tackles as him. He does get his head on the ball ahead of the opposition fairly often, so winning the header, but is not a good header of the ball. You wont get tricks and one touch stuff from him.
He looks like his legs are made of rubber or that his knees bend the wrong way when making a tackle, and he opens his body up massively when side footing the ball for a pass so he looks awkward.
Spent his entire time developing with Chelsea and his first few months with us playing as a central defender, has only played in midfield since start of 2013/14 season.

He could perform at a level where you will wonder why the hell we let him go out on loan, for several games, and then be the worst player on the pitch the next week and subbed off at half time. If you play him regularly he will get at least one MOM award.

 

[sllugaes]

I know there's a lot of hate for Ince on here, particularly from certain posters, but here's just a few more statistics to disagree with your (totally subjective) points.

Last season, when Ince played very regularly, he was dispossessed less than once a game (0.9 times), and he made less than 1 unsuccessful touch per game (0.7 times) i.e. he lost the ball due to a bad touch.

That's less than Kayal, Crofts, March, Calderon, Bruno, Baldock, Texeira when he was here, plus most of the rest of the squad that was here last year... In fact, of the current regulars, the only players with better numbers are Stockdale (a goalkeeper who rarely gets pressurised), Greer and Dunk (our two centre-backs who rarely venture past the half way line) and Stephens. Basically, people spouting rubbish about "his first touch always leads to his second touch being a tackle" - well, the numbers disagree.

And if you want proof of what he does, go on whoscored.com and take a look at his defensive statistics in our team for last season and the season before (you know, when he was a regular). They'll give you an idea about what role he has to play in a team that appreciates his abilities.

Good post - if you look at my post earlier I mentioned about his skill, his quick feet. Has on many occasion beat his man with quick feet. Was initially surprised with the skill expressed. More of the concern with ince was his confidence, and belief. Good player in my book.Never thought he had a poor touch - yes, may not provide the grace of a Gareth Barry pass for example. Although IMHO does not deserve some of the stick re lack of ball control, and is a poor player.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Not pedantic at all, there is a MASSIVE difference between A> Not rating a player, and B> HATING them. There's a huuuuuge difference.

Also, your comments come across INSANELY patronising. I rate Busquets. You've clearly ignored my comments where I said which position I felt Ince could work well in. Read the thread properly then comment.

"My argument that he improved from playing regularly" - I didn't say a SINGLE word of this. I feel like you're responding to someone else. This is bizarre. Very little of what you've said above has ANYTHING to do with my comments in this thread. Actually read them.

They were patronising because your comment wasn't worthy of anything more.

You took a well reasoned argument and instead of focusing on the argument, you took one word from the whole post and made a big deal of it.

And I wasn't replying to your comments across the whole thread, I was replying to your one post which itself was a reply to my post (and an incredibly poorly thought out response to my post, as I stated in my first reply). Furthermore, in your reply post you made no mention of his ability to play in other positions. If you feel I should've read the whole thread to look specifically for your posts before replying to your reply to my post then fair enough, but seeing as my initial post had nothing specifically to do with you yet you jumped on it, I see no reason quite why I should do that.

The ironic thing regarding your last paragraph is that you've not actually read my reply post properly - you've then gone on to criticise me for not reading your post... if you go back and read it properly, you'll realise I'm asking you a question in relation your previous post. As such, it really doesn't seem worthy of any bigger reply because you've not actually made any relevant points to further the discussion because you've clearly not been able to comprehend what's going on. And before you wonder, I AM still patronising you.

Good on you for realising that Busquets is a good player though - maybe there's hope for you yet little Padwan.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Football is a subjective game, I'd much rather hear someone give a balanced opinion based on what they've seen rather than hide behind some meaningless stats. Where on the pitch is he getting his touches? Is he mobile around the pitch? Is he in the correct position? When he distributes are they all sideways passes? If his job is just to break up play how many tackles is he making? Is he slowing down transition when he wins the ball back? Have we scored a goal as a result of something he did? Has the opposition not scored as a result of something he did? etc etc etc

I don't agree with some of the harsher comments, I think he's a good player in a specific role as an anchor in a midfield three but limited when doing anything else, but they're entitled their opinion. You are backing up your opinion with a meaningless bit of information and presenting it as fact, you are no different to anybody else on this thread.

You're right, as I'm sure that football clubs don't ever look at "meaningless bits of information" when they make informed choices about who to sign and play.

Look, I actually agree with a lot of what you're saying, particularly the first paragraph, where you have a lot of valid points.

Unfortunately you undermine what is a good football argument with the second paragraph by a) calling the stats meaningless, and b) overlooking the original point.

The original point was simple. It was that many people deem Ince's first touch to be rubbish which often leads to him losing the ball. The stats disprove that whether you wish to agree with them or not. You or others may dislike him as a player, or you may deem him to have that weakness, but the statistics prove otherwise. That isn't to say that sometimes he doesn't miscontrol the ball nor is it to say he never does. It's just to say that, compared to most other Brighton players, he doesn't do it that regularly when he's playing regularly in the team. In fact, if you look at the statistics, he's improved in that regard over the last two seasons when he played regularly. Maybe, as you stated, that's because he's in positions where he's under less pressure, or maybe it's because he's keeping it simpler or maybe it's because players around him are masking this well by supporting him more effectively. But whatever the reason, it IS A FACT that it's happening.

And on this point - statistics are facts (yes they can be manipulated, but they are still factual outcomes). Or are you going to tell me Rooney isn't England's leading all time goal scorer because it's a "meaningless bit of information" (a statistic that you dislike) which I'm presenting as fact?

 

[saafend_seagull]

Dropped to bench already.

 

[severnside gull]

Dropped to bench already.

Seems familiar. The fans liked his physical presence in the 45 minutes he played. The coaching staff saw questionable positional play and careless passing