[Football] Robbie Savage is right about kids football

[Return of the Rev]

I can only speak from experience at rugby but I always saw it that I wanted the team to win, which it seems might be being frowned on these days. Taking part is what it's all about maybe. Of course I wanted my son to play well and enjoyed encouraging (not abusing, from the touchline). Maybe I am just old fashioned and the result means nothing any more

He did play in mostly pretty good teams for Hove minis and Kent so maybe I never saw the downside, ie. being well beaten every week.

Its great to win but the performance and development is more important,smashing people at under 7's might be great but as they get older you come across better run sides and then you realise others have been concentrating on DEVELOPMENT. I understand the pride when your son scores 13 goals out of the teams 14 in one game which i have seen my son do,This however is not always healthy for him or the other players.Grading teams is quite important but in a non competitive environment its difficult to get the better teams meeting teams at the same level.An elite league even at u7's might mean longer travelling times but should make games more competitive in the top league and the lesser leagues.

 

[JamesAndTheGiantHead]

That 'No instructions' rule seems a bit easy to circumvent.

'Hey little Johnny, do you think you should GET BACK AND MARK THEIR STRIKER....?'

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

I had no idea it was that bad, in which case the rule makes sense

It isn't always, but I've experienced some truly disgusting behaviour from parents and it's left me with no doubt in my mind that it needs to happen. Youth football should be about getting the maximum pleasure and development for kids and parents are almost always the biggest barrier to that, particularly since coaching has caught up in this country.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I can only speak from experience at rugby but I always saw it that I wanted the team to win, which it seems might be being frowned on these days. Taking part is what it's all about maybe. Of course I wanted my son to play well and enjoyed encouraging (not abusing, from the touchline). Maybe I am just old fashioned and the result means nothing any more

It is still about winning, just not winning at all costs. The kids still play to win, still want to be competitive, but you're not leaving little Jimmy freezing his nuts off on the sideline because you're 1 nil up and you feel he might weaken the side. You're playing him because he deserves a go as do the rest of the squad. You shouldn't take it as any less desire to win which you seem to be suggesting. The result means everything to the kids still.

 

[The Upper Library]

I coach an U9 team and the league already enforce the retreat rule, powerplay and pass back - and our club ethos is about equal playing time, play all positions, mixed teams. My priority at this age group is developing the individuals, not winning - but of course the parents want to see their kids win! (Which we do mostly in the top division - I’m lucky I have a brilliant set of players frankly who can mostly play anywhere on the pitch)

I don’t shout too many instructions, mainly just praise and “unlucky” (which got me in trouble with an opposition coach when one of my players was unlucky to give away a foul!)

The matches are played on a neutral 3G pitch and the parents are not allowed on the sideline - they are caged away at the back - makes my life a bit easier although I still hear a few shouting instructions from where they are - “don’t listen to him, do xxx” etc

I love it, the kids seem to love it and that’s all that matters - they are 8 and 9 - it just needs to be fun, and if they can develop at the same time, then fantastic.

The hardest part for me is coming up with training sessions - I try to make them all match based (FA coach drummed that into me) - but it now feels like I’m copping out and just letting them play! If anyone has any ideas or knows anywhere to look for session plans for this age group - that would be great!


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Great post

. I coach U15

Agree with challenges with training making it match based.

I am certainly not the next Chris Hughton but
Some things I have tried in training matches:

1)
Tell the boys that they are not allowed to talk during the match (for 5 mins) if they talk it is a free kick to the opposition- this makes them start to look up and see who they can pass to. It is amazing when you then let them talk - they start communicating with each other (I got this idea from listening to Danny Murphy on a radio show)

2) I am not a fan of only allowing 3 touches to encourage passing never works in my opinion . Instead I say to the boys that they can only beat one player and then have to make a pass. This has worked really well to the extent that the boys no longer see it as rule to stop the natural flow of the game.

3) at random points during the game (when the ball is not near one of the goals) I shout "change" - this is a signal for both teams to sprint to their opponents goal line - only when all the team have got across the line can they rejoin field of play. This obviously works on fitness but more importantly gets the team learning how to get back into shape and really communicate with each other.




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[Icy Gull]

It is still about winning, just not winning at all costs. The kids still play to win, still want to be competitive, but you're not leaving little Jimmy freezing his nuts off on the sideline because you're 1 nil up and you feel he might weaken the side. You're playing him because he deserves a go as do the rest of the squad. You shouldn't take it as any less desire to win which you seem to be suggesting. The result means everything to the kids still.

Good point

 

[middletoenail]

I remember playing for Southdown Rovers when I was about 9 years old, and we had a very good team, regularly winning with scores like 15-0. My dad worked on the weekends so it was always a struggle for me to make games, especially away ones.... But I always found a way.

I was a sub in one game and it was a freezing winter morning, and at half time the 'manager' told me that he didn't want to make any changes because " I don't want to rock the boat".... I was 8 or 9 years old FFS!

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[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

When I was a kid, say 9, weirdly I found conceding a goal and the opposition players celebrating not that crushing. It's kids football and it was fun.

The bit that used to hurt was 30 adults from the other team celebrating like it was Will Buckley's goal against Doncaster.

It was even worse when, inevitably, the goal was equally through poor play (as WE WERE NINE). It just felt like the adults were LAUGHING at you.

Horrible.

Maybe I'm weak.

 

[Monkey Man]

I was glad when my son's football "career" came to an end. Just bored of the parents who forced out a perfectly good manager who was getting great results and fostered a good team spirit but apparently wasn't playing their little darlings in their favourite positions and had all the wrong tactics.

We ended up as a club that was totally results-driven, imported new kids from outside the immediate area to give the coach the wins he wanted, and the original nucleus of players was broken up. For what?

Our new players were happy to abuse referees and their team mates and their parents never stopped bloody shouting.

Now my daughter plays and I must say the set-up at her club is really encouraging and "professional". Though you still come across moronic parents (and coaches) at some clubs that we come up against.

 

[McTavish]

Not sure about the no instructions from the coaches rule.
Kids football won't be the same without someone bellowing from the sidelines-
" Don't dive in "
"You're walking "
"Wake up lads "

My favourite is when you a coach in full team tracksuit (with his initials on the front) screams "SHAPE!!!" at a bunch of 7 year olds.

 

[The Upper Library]

I attended a child safeguarding course run by FA recently. The tutor was a coach from the Albion academy and he told a story about himself from when he was running a youth team about 10 years ago. His team had got to a cup final and were wining and he chose to bring on one of his subs with only a minute left as he perceived him to be a weaker player and didn't want to risk losing. He described it as the worst decision of his youth coaching career- one that still haunts him today. His team won the cup but for that boy he had deprived him of playing in a cup final - an opportunity that is very rare for any player.

I think it really hit home to a lot of us listening.


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[Gwylan]

3) at random points during the game (when the ball is not near one of the goals) I shout "change" - this is a signal for both teams to sprint to their opponents goal line - only when all the team have got across the line can they rejoin field of play. This obviously works on fitness but more importantly gets the team learning how to get back into shape and really communicate with each other.

We do something like this in rugby. At random moments, we make the touchline the tryline so the players have to turn 90 degrees and get into shape - it's great for fostering quick thinking and organisation.

I thinking coaching at all sports has moved on a great deal since I was a kid, it's great to see so much innovation out there

 

[Moshe Gariani]

When I was a kid, say 9, weirdly I found conceding a goal and the opposition players celebrating not that crushing. It's kids football and it was fun.

The bit that used to hurt was 30 adults from the other team celebrating like it was Will Buckley's goal against Doncaster.

It was even worse when, inevitably, the goal was equally through poor play (as WE WERE NINE). It just felt like the adults were LAUGHING at you.

Horrible.

Maybe I'm weak.

This. Moshe Jnr plays kids football and the visceral roar that can accompany one 8 year old toe-poking the ball under the dive of another hapless 8 year old sometimes needs to be witnessed to be believed...

 

[The Upper Library]

We do something like this in rugby. At random moments, we make the touchline the tryline so the players have to turn 90 degrees and get into shape - it's great for fostering quick thinking and organisation.

I thinking coaching at all sports has moved on a great deal since I was a kid, it's great to see so much innovation out there

Cheers

I think one of the challenges is not to over coach - as I




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[hans kraay fan club]

As a veteran volunteer / coach / referee of many, many hundreds of kids matches from U11 up to U18, I have to say that in MY personal experience, I've seen very, very little of the issues with parents that lots of people are mentioning.

I've seen ONE serious assault (player punching player) that led to an U15 match being abandoned, in all of those matches.

I've almost never, ever seen issues with the parents. maybe they're just a nice bunch round these parts?

We've all seen individual dicks, being dicks, but I don't personally think the issues are as widespread as some suggest.

But - as this is the thread for STORIES...

U14 match, playing against a decent local side, our boys were 1-0 down with a minute to go, when I had a 'moment' with a particularly mouthy opposition Dad.

The ball rolled 30 yards behind our goal, and his lad trotted after it, and picked it up and was on his way to the corner flag, only to realize that a goal kick had been given rather than a corner. So he dropped it to the floor and hoofed it into the bushes. Mouthy Dad was walking right in front of all our parents at this point (rather than up the other end with their people), as I said to my wife, "Nice sportsmanship, that".

MOD spins round, and bellows "He's here to win a ****ing football match, not a sportsmanship award".

Terrific.

 

[dejavuatbtn]

I remember playing for Southdown Rovers when I was about 9 years old, and we had a very good team, regularly winning with scores like 15-0. My dad worked on the weekends so it was always a struggle for me to make games, especially away ones.... But I always found a way.

I was a sub in one game and it was a freezing winter morning, and at half time the 'manager' told me that he didn't want to make any changes because " I don't want to rock the boat".... I was 8 or 9 years old FFS!

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Yes, there always seemed to be a win at all costs culture at Southdown Rovers. I recall my 10 year old playing there and was threatened with a booking for encroaching at a corner by their ref! It made it an intimidating place to go for the kids.

 

[Stat Brother]

The previous team Jnr Stat played for was appalling.

Touchline abuse, referee abuse, best players only, 'Premier League' behaviour tolerated from the best player, every cliche in the book.
I hated him playing for them, but the loyal little bugger wouldn't leave, until training changed.

I guarantee they absolutely couldn't see this about themselves, as everyone was so caught up in the notion of winning, that all the other life lesson fell by the wayside.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I coach an U9 team and the league already enforce the retreat rule, powerplay and pass back - and our club ethos is about equal playing time, play all positions, mixed teams. My priority at this age group is developing the individuals, not winning - but of course the parents want to see their kids win! (Which we do mostly in the top division - I’m lucky I have a brilliant set of players frankly who can mostly play anywhere on the pitch)

I don’t shout too many instructions, mainly just praise and “unlucky” (which got me in trouble with an opposition coach when one of my players was unlucky to give away a foul!)

The matches are played on a neutral 3G pitch and the parents are not allowed on the sideline - they are caged away at the back - makes my life a bit easier although I still hear a few shouting instructions from where they are - “don’t listen to him, do xxx” etc

I love it, the kids seem to love it and that’s all that matters - they are 8 and 9 - it just needs to be fun, and if they can develop at the same time, then fantastic.

The hardest part for me is coming up with training sessions - I try to make them all match based (FA coach drummed that into me) - but it now feels like I’m copping out and just letting them play! If anyone has any ideas or knows anywhere to look for session plans for this age group - that would be great!

If you're an FA Licensed coach, have you gone through all the session plans on the Licensed Coach website? There isn't an extensive list, but there are a few there to develop and work at and they are listed through age groups. Anyone in your club who has done the FA Level 2, or the Youth Modules (as they previously were) should also have some good ideas to show you from their manuals. I often find trawling through YouTube has some good ideas too. U9s to U10s is quite a big transition, going from little kids running around 6, 7, 8 years old, to starting to get to grips with the game, 7v7. The jump to U11s and 9v9 with offsides and no retreating to halfway then seems a giant step.

 

[drew]

Yes, there always seemed to be a win at all costs culture at Southdown Rovers. I recall my 10 year old playing there and was threatened with a booking for encroaching at a corner by their ref! It made it an intimidating place to go for the kids.

Well it's not for the girls team there that I manage. Every squad member that turns up at a game gets at least to play one half, normally making subs have way through the game. We aim to win but aren't going to lose any sleep if we don't. We'll also match up with the other team, ie if they turn up with only 8 players then we'll only play with 8 even though it's 9 a side. That said I think generally the atmosphere and approach in the girls game is completely different to the boys game where it is over competitive.

 

[Pavilionaire]

And as a PS to the above the FA are trialling these new rules in Manchester for kids football. Some sensible stuff here.

View attachment 91138

Classic FA. Just as we start producing kids that win stuff they want to fanny about and change the rules.

The only decent suggestion in the "12 Rules" is the blue card: at Under-12 level the refs are usually very young and don't want to produce the yellow card, yet there are plenty of challenges that go unpunished that would get yellows in the Premier League.