[Football] Robbie Savage is right about kids football

[dejavuatbtn]

My youngest is in a team and I understood a part of the yearly fees goes towards FA registration administration costs. The FA sorts out a league and fixtures etc so assume the money goes towards paying for that.

A club has to pay a registration fee to the FA for each team. This is pretty minimal and includes a contributuon to the admin required within the FA (in our case the Sussex County FA) that does have a few full time staff. Most County admin is done by volunteers who, as seems to be the case are mostly retired people with time on their hands. Yes it needs younger people, but who's going to volunteer when they've got their own kids football to use up their spare time?
The FA do, however, make money out of courses they run for managers, officials, coaches, parents and players (some of these are compulsory like safeguarding and level 1 coaching, first aid etc).
I think the biggest issue for the FA is that if they keep requiring those involved to have every qualification under the sun, then people won't volunteer due to time, expense and the responsibility. We then get left in the long term with paid administrators, coaches and managers - which will make the whole thing unaffordable and the loss of football for those kids other than who excel or can afford it"

 

[macky]

A club has to pay a registration fee to the FA for each team. This is pretty minimal and includes a contributuon to the admin required within the FA (in our case the Sussex County FA) that does have a few full time staff. Most County admin is done by volunteers who, as seems to be the case are mostly retired people with time on their hands. Yes it needs younger people, but who's going to volunteer when they've got their own kids football to use up their spare time?
The FA do, however, make money out of courses they run for managers, officials, coaches, parents and players (some of these are compulsory like safeguarding and level 1 coaching, first aid etc).
I think the biggest issue for the FA is that if they keep requiring those involved to have every qualification under the sun, then people won't volunteer due to time, expense and the responsibility. We then get left in the long term with paid administrators, coaches and managers - which will make the whole thing unaffordable and the loss of football for those kids other than who excel or can afford it"

I think the fa could help by reducing the cost of their training For people involved in kids football The cost of getting a and b badges is stupidly high In Iceland kids coaches have to have these qualification And all coaching is free

 

[chaileyjem]

I think the fa could help by reducing the cost of their training For people involved in kids football The cost of getting a and b badges is stupidly high In Iceland kids coaches have to have these qualification And all coaching is free

Or more radically the FA could put a levy of 5% on their premier league TV deal. And divert that to the grassroots .
Would pay for quite a few coaching courses and bibs.

 

[dejavuatbtn]

I think the fa could help by reducing the cost of their training For people involved in kids football The cost of getting a and b badges is stupidly high In Iceland kids coaches have to have these qualification And all coaching is free

I totally agree but don't think the FA will ever be able to receive sufficient funding from its sources (Premier League, Sponsors etc) to be able to afford it.

 

[Gwylan]

After a couple of years at local youth football my nephews all switched to Rugby. I watch them regularly (even tho i still never really understand the rules) - for their development physical, confidence, behavior, respect, Rugby has done so much. Way above anything football ever did, to them or any of the youth teams I was involved in - in any way. Without wishing to sound about 90 I believe much of this comes from the idiot and disrespectful behavior of many modern footballers.
Nothing is perfect but at Rugby I don't see parents slating the referee, verbally abusing the ref, shouting angrily at their own children for failing, arguing with other teams parents, slating the team manager for his tactics (even tho this is the person who gives his own time up - and a fair bit of it), standing too close to the line so as linesman you were forever having to move them back despite marked standing areas, slating every ref/lino decision. Of course the real expert Dads/Mums were the ones who would never run the line or help in any way!
Rugby is a game where parents seem to mix better and frequently after a game finishes teams sit for a meal. For child development it does far more away from the pitch as well.

Both my kids play rugby (I didn't really want them to play football after seeing the behaviour of some of the parents at games in Wild Park) and in nearly six of watching, I've never seen a parent abuse a ref or an opposing player. Parents will applaud good play by both sides without being told to do so.

As a coach, I don't shout instructions from the sidelines and we will shut up any parents who do so (our head coach shut one up a couple of weeks ago). The RFU don't want coaches giving instructions, the emphasis is on the kids working out for themselves. At half time, we say little and leave it the girls (I coach a girls team) to work out what's going wrong.

And the meal afterwards is important: it's mandatory for the home team to supply a hot meal (as in cricket's requirement to supply a tea) and the two sides sit down together and nominate a players of the match - each team nominates one of the opposition's. There's a great atmosphere and the teams get on well - even if they'd been bashing lumps out of each other minutes earlier.

It's an absolute pleasure to watch and coach the girls (as it is to watch my son's team too). Football has itself to blame for its problems with behaviour - it's drummed into kids from when they're six to always respect the ref and never argue. When they start with that mindset and carry on with it, the good behaviour comes naturally.

 

[drew]

I have heard of pitches where flints poke through the ground Every matchday pitches have to be checked for dogs droppings grass not cut for weeks Big pivots in the pitch which could cause serious injury A friend of mine nearly lost a leg through dog shit As the council charge a fee surely they have a duty to make the pitches a little be
tter than they are

You really think the council should be doing pre kick off pitch inspections for dog shit! It isn't hard for a few parents to march up and down the pitch before a game and collect any dogshit they find. Same for the so called flints! I check the pitch before our games and any rubbish sticks are removed and any holes filled. Perhaps what you ask would be possible but expect a rise in your council tax bill.

 

[macky]

You really think the council should be doing pre kick off pitch inspections for dog shit! It isn't hard for a few parents to march up and down the pitch before a game and collect any dogshit they find. Same for the so called flints! I check the pitch before our games and any rubbish sticks are removed and any holes filled. Perhaps what you ask would be possible but expect a rise in your council tax bill.

What I was trying to say was they charge for shit they should at least make a little effort From what I see they don't really give flying xxxx about the state of the pitches

 

[Gwylan]

You really think the council should be doing pre kick off pitch inspections for dog shit! It isn't hard for a few parents to march up and down the pitch before a game and collect any dogshit they find.

I bring a pocketful of poo bags before every game for that precise reason.

 

[Sirnormangall]

I get the principle of what you’re saying, but the reality really is a damning indictment of parents who often live vicariously through their children and, from my experience, treat referees appallingly which sets an awful example.

We want kids to enjoy the game and the standard of coaching has improved dramatically from when I was a nipper (I’m 32 now), but parents are often a big blockade to real footballing decelopement and enjoyment for a lot of children. And the worst thing is, from my experience, that they’ll usually admit as much to their coach (but be far too scared to tell their parents). Parents should be thinking “what actions on my part will lead to the most enjoyment and progress for my child”, not “I’m a spectator here, I can do what I like”, which is how your post comes across.

Spot on. This mirrors my own experience. Too many "win at all costs" coaches. Too many parents coaching from the touch lines ( giving different instructions to the coach). Too many aggressive parents, overly critical of referees and coaches, putting too much pressure on their kids and never willing to help the volunteers that keep their kids' football club going and wondering why there's a shortage of referees!

 

[redoubtable seagull]

I'd just ban parents! Drop the kids off and let the volunteer coaches and kids get on with it. I have witnessed so much bad or embarrassing parental behaviour in the ten years I've been watching my boys play. Funnily enough, from my experience, parental behaviour seemed to improve as my eldest got older.

 

[Sirnormangall]

As the children get older the parents finally start to accept that their child is unlikely to become a professional footballer, so that seems to start calming the parents..........but then the children start to become the problem: as they get older, testosterone and alcohol turn football matches into boxing matches!

 

[Reinelt12]

I coach an U9 team and the league already enforce the retreat rule, powerplay and pass back - and our club ethos is about equal playing time, play all positions, mixed teams. My priority at this age group is developing the individuals, not winning - but of course the parents want to see their kids win! (Which we do mostly in the top division - I’m lucky I have a brilliant set of players frankly who can mostly play anywhere on the pitch)

I don’t shout too many instructions, mainly just praise and “unlucky” (which got me in trouble with an opposition coach when one of my players was unlucky to give away a foul!)

The matches are played on a neutral 3G pitch and the parents are not allowed on the sideline - they are caged away at the back - makes my life a bit easier although I still hear a few shouting instructions from where they are - “don’t listen to him, do xxx” etc

I love it, the kids seem to love it and that’s all that matters - they are 8 and 9 - it just needs to be fun, and if they can develop at the same time, then fantastic.

The hardest part for me is coming up with training sessions - I try to make them all match based (FA coach drummed that into me) - but it now feels like I’m copping out and just letting them play! If anyone has any ideas or knows anywhere to look for session plans for this age group - that would be great!


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[sussex_guy2k2]

It has to start with parents/those on the sidelines respecting the ref and also for the ref to be firm with ott spectators overstepping the mark. I get what you are saying completely but reigning in enthusiasm to polite applause, smacks of dumbing down rather than admonishing the minority who have big gobs and no respect. It cannot be easy for the ref to have to cope with some spectators, I accept. Shame, as I feel enthusiasm from the touchline is a part of watching

Your point of view represents the ideal. Unfortunately, it isn’t the minority, it’s the majority. As a coach or ref, it’s very difficult to deal with 10 mid-40s men screaming abuse at kids that are 13 or under, or undermining you as a coach just because they think their son or daughter should be centre of attention. That’s why many clubs are banning parents; parents and the disrespect they show is a large, large part of the problem with youth football.

 

[Icy Gull]

Your point of view represents the ideal. Unfortunately, it isn’t the minority, it’s the majority. As a coach or ref, it’s very difficult to deal with 10 mid-40s men screaming abuse at kids that are 13 or under, or undermining you as a coach just because they think their son or daughter should be centre of attention. That’s why many clubs are banning parents; parents and the disrespect they show is a large, large part of the problem with youth football.

I had no idea it was that bad, in which case the rule makes sense

 

[Brovion]

Can't see any merit in that suggestion tbh, bar saving a few quid.

Why shouldn't the kids have a club kit, to help them identify as a team / club?

Because as I said it's all part of the 'mini-me' aping of the adult game: someone's dad thinking they're Sir Alex and parents thinking they're watching the Champions' League final. Anything that can help 'de-toxify' childrens' football is good. Also if you've ever been involved in kids' football you'll know that an awful lot of time and effort, to say nothing of the money, is spent in trying to find/replace kits. There are far better uses for these resources other than making sure the players look nice.

 

[Return of the Rev]

Certainly not a fan of the silent sidelines rule, nothing wrong with shouting encouragement imo. My son played rugby rather than football as a nipper, maybe it's different in football.

It smacks of not trusting parents/relatives to stay in control so spoiling the enjoyment of spectators and players alike. Polite clapping really isn't what football and rugger are about imo.

Staying silent is not all about keeping parents in check,the coach my have spent a'lot of time trying to develop players and a style of play.When parents start getting vocal on the side lines they can completely undermine the coaches. The coaches might not want little johhny to score 6 goals and smash a poor team 10-0,he might want a style of play that might mean scoring less goals but developing a footballing side from front to back. Parents only see one player on a Sunday morning that's the problem.

 

[tubby]

I have seen a lot of academy games at the training ground and parents cannot coach their children and can only applaud the kids. Whilst this is in a very controlled environment it works well and should be introduced into all youth football. Unfortunately there are a lot of young referees who are not confident enough to deal with the parent situation - no one's fault just a lack of life experience. I have also watched a lot of youth football in the States and they do not have the same problems over there so it is something that can be dealt with but it is the parents who need to lead the way. When my son was playing I stood away from everyone else as I was appalled by the behavior of some parents.

 

[Icy Gull]

Staying silent is not all about keeping parents in check,the coach my have spent a'lot of time trying to develop players and a style of play.When parents start getting vocal on the side lines they can completely undermine the coaches. The coaches might not want little johhny to score 6 goals and smash a poor team 10-0,he might want a style of play that might mean scoring less goals but developing a footballing side from front to back. Parents only see one player on a Sunday morning that's the problem.

I can only speak from experience at rugby but I always saw it that I wanted the team to win, which it seems might be being frowned on these days. Taking part is what it's all about maybe. Of course I wanted my son to play well and enjoyed encouraging (not abusing, from the touchline). Maybe I am just old fashioned and the result means nothing any more

He did play in mostly pretty good teams for Hove minis and Kent so maybe I never saw the downside, ie. being well beaten every week.

 

[chaileyjem]

Because as I said it's all part of the 'mini-me' aping of the adult game: someone's dad thinking they're Sir Alex and parents thinking they're watching the Champions' League final. Anything that can help 'de-toxify' childrens' football is good. Also if you've ever been involved in kids' football you'll know that an awful lot of time and effort, to say nothing of the money, is spent in trying to find/replace kits. There are far better uses for these resources other than making sure the players look nice.

Agreed about a lot of the issues facing grassroots football - parents, refs, abuse and I appreciate the FA and clubs making changes to improve this.

But wearing a club shirt is a long way down the list. That's what makes kid football so enjoyable - giving players the chance to play real matches with goals, flags, refs and their own shirts .

Finding funds to support this is difficult for some clubs but sponsorship, donations and fees make it possible. And the FA have schemes that often subsidise it.

Really isn't an issue for my club or any club I speak to. Pitches, abuse, volunteers, refs, facilities in general always come up though.

 

[macky]

I have seen a lot of academy games at the training ground and parents cannot coach their children and can only applaud the kids. Whilst this is in a very controlled environment it works well and should be introduced into all youth football. Unfortunately there are a lot of young referees who are not confident enough to deal with the parent situation - no one's fault just a lack of life experience. I have also watched a lot of youth football in the States and they do not have the same problems over there so it is something that can be dealt with but it is the parents who need to lead the way. When my son was playing I stood away from everyone else as I was appalled by the behavior of some parents.

I was at a game a year ago Where the coach of the other team abused the young girl ref after the game With most of the under 12 team joining in shouting at her as she left the pitch I hear they got a £25 fine ( my 12 year old son got £35 for a sending of in another game ) Again the FA failed