[Football] Right then. After that demonstration... VAR? Yes or No?

[Kinky Gerbil]

Just watching the Wolves game, they scored and was reviewed for offside but the VAR picture on the screen showed the ball at the feet of the player receiving the pass not the feet of the player making the pass. Goal was given though, eventually, great goal as well.

Imagine if that was ruled out because someone was a Cm offside

That’s what they were checking.

 

[B-right-on]

What struck me about that Wolves goal review is that we saw the video of the lines being placed, the one for the ball was set, then we see the one for the player against whom the offside was being checked. It was quite clear that he was on side, as that line was being placed. Then his line was set. Did the ref blow the whistle? No. We had to wait for the two lines to be coloured in, before the ok was given.

This is the Sky video people pissing about. We don't see the VAR video, but in theory it should the same but as Neville I think pointed out at the start of the season, Sky have 12 cameras and VAR have 7, or something like that. So the Sky analysis is in theory, better as they have more angles.

 

[dirtynine]

It's sheer nonsense to suggest that any true football fan would happily accept their team losing points through incorrect decisions ...... just so long as they get the chance to jump up and down every now and then and wave their arms around like a Honey Monster in a bee farm.

What's described as "sheer nonsense" here is my exact position. The honey monster stuff is why I'm a fan. I would give up points and results to retain it. Otherwise why not just review a spreadsheet at the end of the season.

 

[Pavilionaire]

When the Palace injury-time ‘equaliser’ was flagged offside, in the 1-0 McShane game, there were celebrations worthy of any Albion goal!

I was there and whilst the disallowed goal was sweet I can't remember much about the goal itself, but that McShane goal is etched on my brain, as is the celebrarion.

 

[Arthritic Toe]

But we have to accept it isn't going away; and that it will affect the way we celebrate goals. I suspect the cure will be seen to be more of the dodgy medicine, as VAR influence grows (why not use it for to look for shirt pulling in box at corners, for example?). If it ruins the spectacle as much as many posters claim, perhaps the season ticket waiting list will suddenly reduce dramatically, but I rather doubt it....

I don’t think we have to accept that. Given enough discontent it could be abandoned after this one season.

 

[southstandandy]

Has ther been a VAR rule change already since the first week?

In the pub last night a group of guys watching the Wolves game were discussing the validity of the Wolves equaliser as Joao Moutinho's arm was marginally shown to be offisde when the ball was played back to him before crossing for the goal but was not called offside. In the West Ham v Man City game on the first weekend Sterling's shoulder was adjudged offside ruling out what would have been their 3rd goal at the time.

Does anyone know under the new VAR rules if there is a difference between a shoulder being offside and another players arm?

Glad Wolves goal wasn't disallowed as it was brilliant, but genuinely was wondering why the different ruling between the two situations.

 

[withdeanwombat]

VAR is great.

Why don’t they keep the results secret, then announce them after Match of the Day?

That way, everyone can experience the joy of the goals, the thrill of the win. Or vice versa, of course. Saturday night pints would taste brilliant, or like turgid dust on the tongue.

You could have had 5 hours of reliving that scintillating win, or trying to forget a dismal result.

Then Gary can announce the true results. Across England and outliers of Wales joy becomes gloom, gloom joy.

But by then everyone’s sloshed .

And so to bed.

 

[Exile]

Has ther been a VAR rule change already since the first week?

In the pub last night a group of guys watching the Wolves game were discussing the validity of the Wolves equaliser as Joao Moutinho's arm was marginally shown to be offisde when the ball was played back to him before crossing for the goal but was not called offside. In the West Ham v Man City game on the first weekend Sterling's shoulder was adjudged offside ruling out what would have been their 3rd goal at the time.

Does anyone know under the new VAR rules if there is a difference between a shoulder being offside and another players arm?

Glad Wolves goal wasn't disallowed as it was brilliant, but genuinely was wondering why the different ruling between the two situations.

This is simply that you are confusing shoulders and arms!

(Your shoulder CAN be offside - as can 'any part of the body you can play the ball with'. Your arm can NOT.)

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

VAR is great.

Why don’t they keep the results secret, then announce them after Match of the Day?

That way, everyone can experience the joy of the goals, the thrill of the win. Or vice versa, of course. Saturday night pints would taste brilliant, or like turgid dust on the tongue.

You could have had 5 hours of reliving that scintillating win, or trying to forget a dismal result.

Then Gary can announce the true results. Across England and outliers of Wales joy becomes gloom, gloom joy.

But by then everyone’s sloshed ��.

And so to bed.

They may as well. Why stop there ? How about keeping the results secret all season then just let us know in May who has won the league, got relegated, won the cup etc ? That way the fans can do something more productive at the weekend like gardening or shopping and we can all be sure we have the correct results. Win win.

 

[Seasider78]

I don't; I agree its introduction has caused problems. Good point made on Sky commentary this evening that VAR has taken away more than it has given. Tonight a Man U player was flagged offside marginally near end of game and Martial stopped from crossing from a promising position. That isn't equitable: Man U should have had the chance to complete the move in case it wasn't offside, as they would have done had lino kept flag down. Good point on another thread that VAR doesn't even consider shirt pulling in penalty area, which is something it easily could as refs cannot be expected to see everything at corners.

I will confess to being a bit of a devil's advocate; what I am against is jumping on the anti VAR bandwagon on the basis of one incident, especially as it was proved to be correct. VAR is not right; there I have said it. But we have to accept it isn't going away; and that it will affect the way we celebrate goals. I suspect the cure will be seen to be more of the dodgy medicine, as VAR influence grows (why not use it for to look for shirt pulling in box at corners, for example?). If it ruins the spectacle as much as many posters claim, perhaps the season ticket waiting list will suddenly reduce dramatically, but I rather doubt it....

Why do we have to accept it is not going away? If it continues to draw the headline it has in the first 2 games of the season I can easily see pressure building to remove it.

Well done the Wolves fans in the ground last night making their feelings clear on the matter.

 

[Official Old Man]

BBC 5Live have the guy in charge of VAR. Start at around 2:41
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0007r4m

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

I think those arguing FOR VAR are really missing the point. They argue that it would be better to have correct decisions or seem to think those of us against it are arguing about the decisions themselves.

I think Wolves showed last night that the vast majority of people are not anti getting things right. They are against the fact that the fluidity and sheer joy of scoring a goal has been removed from the game.

Neves scored a WONDERFUL goal....ran to the fans, was mobbed by the players, replays of his wonder strike shown over and over, joy all round............and then we have to wait to just check it really was OK.

Even after the goal was given the Wolves fans were chanting about VAR. It had taken away from the moment which, as I said before, is awful for the sport.

On paper, it's a lovely idea. Get things right.

I'm not sure the authorities actually realised in practice what effect this would have. I saw a video of a man city fan, after the Jesus goal was disallowed, sum it up perfectly. "I won't ever celebrate a last minute winner like that again because of VAR". How sad is that.

 

[Best Foot Forward]

Give the VAR team a time limit to make a decision from when the ball hits the net. If an error (e.g. offside) is not clear and obvious within say 15 seconds.....then there probably hasn't been a clear and obvious error by the lino / ref

Bit like a cricket review, but in reverse.

 

[Easy 10]

I think those arguing FOR VAR are really missing the point. They argue that it would be better to have correct decisions or seem to think those of us against it are arguing about the decisions themselves.

I think Wolves showed last night that the vast majority of people are not anti getting things right. They are against the fact that the fluidity and sheer joy of scoring a goal has been removed from the game.

Neves scored a WONDERFUL goal....ran to the fans, was mobbed by the players, replays of his wonder strike shown over and over, joy all round............and then we have to wait to just check it really was OK.

Even after the goal was given the Wolves fans were chanting about VAR. It had taken away from the moment which, as I said before, is awful for the sport.

On paper, it's a lovely idea. Get things right.

I'm not sure the authorities actually realised in practice what effect this would have. I saw a video of a man city fan, after the Jesus goal was disallowed, sum it up perfectly. "I won't ever celebrate a last minute winner like that again because of VAR". How sad is that.

And you'd have thought after Sterlings injury time goal v Spurs was chalked off in the Champions League QF last season, they'd have learned their lesson. Man City are getting proper done over by VAR lately, they must be wondering when something will go for them.

Well, they did get to retake that penalty at West Ham, but frankly, the officials shouldn't even have needed VAR to know that Rice had encroached before he cleared the ball.

 

[southstandandy]

This is simply that you are confusing shoulders and arms!

(Your shoulder CAN be offside - as can 'any part of the body you can play the ball with'. Your arm can NOT.)

Fair enough. I must be misinterpreting the rules :


"A handball occurs if any player, other than the team’s goalkeeper within his own penalty area, deliberately handles the ball when in play. A ball can be handled with any part of the arm, from the tips of a player’s fingers right up to the shoulder."

Still seems petty to me. It would have been a travesty if the Wolves goal had not stood. Justice was certainly done.

 

[the right footed denilson]

I don't really get why Wolves goal stood as it seemed the players upper body was offside. But **** me, if goals like that start getting disallowed for things like that....

 

[Napper]

VAR has made a rod for its own back with the way they've come out the traps.

The bullshitty 1cm offside things they are scouring the replays for ,means they now cant not give any that happen . Just means they are going to stay as anal as they have started.

VAR for clear and obvious errors - ok reluctantly accept.

If you are having to whack up multiple grids to see if someone's nose is offside then that isn't clear.

They started anal and they will remain anal.

Clear and obvious - My Aunt fanny !!

Maybe the "VAR team" are on commission for the goals they can chalk off.

 

[SUA Seagull]

I'd have it the way it used to be thanks, I've always been dubious of VAR. Criticising the ref / lino was always part of the game, but although there would be the odd frustration, we all accepted the odd duff call, because of exactly what you said - they had to make split-second decisions after having ONE look at it. Now VAR is involved, and we're still getting duff decisions, because its still just down to a human looking at a review and interpreting it. We're striving for an unattainable perfection now in a game of chaos.

And the cost of it is delays, interruptions, game time lost that never seems to be given back, and the diminishing enjoyment of a goal rush because you know in a minute or two, it could be binned off because of someones knee being a deemed a millimetre offside, or some inconsequential invisible "foul" that nobody else in the stadium even noticed. That Man City goal they rubbed off other day being a case in point.

Its so, so poor.

This.

No-one’s disputing that VAR is there to correct clear and obvious errors. What’s absolutely the case (for me at least) is that the cost we now have to accept for reaching the “technically correct” decision 99.9% of the time with VAR has totally eclipsed the benefits of a spontaneous goal celebration, the euphoric feeling associated with last-minute winners or equalisers, slagging off the ref/lino, debating controversial decisions at work on Monday morning – all of which are core entertainment attributes associated with the art of football.

VAR has made football into a science and, as a big fan of live football, it has certainly diminished the experience for me. The need to ensure the correctness of each goal (ultimately for business purposes) has superseded the entertainment value of the odd dodgy decision (which, in any event, probably even themselves out over the course of a season).

If, as in the case of City’s goal vs Spurs and Albion’s goal vs West Ham, the officials didn't flag the incident in real time and not a single one of the opposition players challenged the “goal”, then to chalk it off seems absurd.

I know some like VAR, and say that it will level the playing field and eradicate “top six” decision bias, but I’m out!

 

[the right footed denilson]

Do we think then, if VAR continues (and it clearly will), that we will actually start to enjoy goals less? That we will evolve to not be quite as joyous- our natural reactions muted, just in case?
That'd be so sad.
Imagine seeing that Neves goal and being like "nice shot but let's wait until VAR".

 

[the right footed denilson]

If, as in the case of City’s goal vs Spurs and Albion’s goal vs West Ham, the officials didn't flag the incident in real time and not a single one of the opposition players challenged the “goal”, then to chalk it off seems absurd.

Totally agree with this. If it's clear at least one player will see it. That things are being reviewed that players (and let's be honest, they will appeal for all kinds of things) aren't even reacting to is nonsense.