[Football] Refereeing standards.

[lawros left foot]

Not only yesterday’s fiasco, but, have refereeing standards ever been as bad as they are now? I’ve been watching football for over 50 years, and I honestly can’t remember a batch of referees that have been worse.
This season, in particular seems to have been refereeing mistake after mistake, Liverpool’s plethora of offside goals, Mike Deans sending off of Lewis Dunk for a phantom tackle, and then not having the class to admit it and rescind the second yellow,Southamptons blatant foul on Barnes last week, denied a penalty, and even, Zahas sending off , which although highly amusing, was so badly handled by the officials.
The list of awful decisions this season just seems o have gone on and on.
Is it time for referees to be held to account for bad decisions, and maybe dock their fees?

 

[Hampster Gull]

There is more and more global money involved in football

 

[Acker79]

I used to think no. In the past everyone got on with their own jobs and didn't worry about anyone else's. Players focused on playing. Managers on managing. Commentators on calling the action. Supporters on supporting. All this left the refs to officiate and we just accepted they knew what they were doing. We didn't have multi-angle slow motion replays with CG graphics to show the point of view of the ref/linesman etc.

In recent years it has felt like everyone wants to also referee the game without taking into account a) they don't actually know the rules all that well, and b) their own inherent biases and the lack of neutrality in their interpretation or reading of events, and c) the impact of so much money in football making winning more important than playing with honour and integrity making it even more difficult for referees.

I still think that is mostly true.

But it is certainly starting to feel like there are more and more notable errors each weekend.

 

[BensGrandad]

Are there more mistakes or are they just highighted more with TV You Tube and play backs etc.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

From a partisan point of view, match official standards have been pretty awful recently. Yesterday's Tale Of Two Penalties cheated near on 30,000 paying spectators of an exciting climax to the match. Sooner they bring in VAR on a permanent basis the better, with maybe each manager having the right to call up for review in real time a fixed number of flashpoints.

 

[Hampster Gull]

I used to think no. In the past everyone got on with their own jobs and didn't worry about anyone else's. Players focused on playing. Managers on managing. Commentators on calling the action. Supporters on supporting. All this left the refs to officiate and we just accepted they knew what they were doing. We didn't have multi-angle slow motion replays with CG graphics to show the point of view of the ref/linesman etc.

In recent years it has felt like everyone wants to also referee the game without taking into account a) they don't actually know the rules all that well, and b) their own inherent biases and the lack of neutrality in their interpretation or reading of events, and c) the impact of so much money in football making winning more important than playing with honour and integrity making it even more difficult for referees.

I still think that is mostly true.

But it is certainly starting to feel like there are more and more notable errors each weekend.

I see you like the role of devils advocate but really, that’s the basics of their job.

 

[PTC Gull]

Just happened again in the Spurs game. Son tripped up by Maguire and Son gets booked for diving. Replay shows Maguire at fault.

 

[lawros left foot]

It does seem to the ordinary supporter, that refs seem to be above criticism from the FA . Unless it is a case of the referee getting multiple decisions wrong over a period of months, no action is taken for their ineptitude. I can only think of Uriah Remy in the recent past who has been demoted to the lower leagues for being incompetent, all the others just appear to go on their merry way with no sanctions for their inability to officiate correctly.

 

[Dave the OAP]

The guy who did the Norwich Ipswich game was brilliant in the face of extreme provocation

 

[TheJasperCo]

There's no transparency. The refereeing sector is akin to the Freemasons, and with that comes precious little accountability.

I refereed youth and grassroots football between 2007 and 2011. I had good matches and bad games, and I was humble in admitting serious errors of judgment. But, I wasn't on £70 k a year and rarely had the benefit of three other qualified officials with me on the sidelines. I wouldn't say standards are any worse, but then again that's probably not a good thing.

 

[Acker79]

I see you like the role of devils advocate but really, that’s the basics of their job.

I'm not entirely sure whether you're making light of a possibly poorly worded paragraph, and I'm too tired to see the joke; if you're thinking I'm suggesting refs don't know the rules that well; or if you think knowing the rules really well is one of the basics for players, managers, fans and commentators.

So first to clarify - I don't think managers, players, fans or commentators know the rules as well as they think they do when they try to second guess refereeing decision. That isn't me playing devils advocate, that's me seeing those groups criticise perfectly reasonable decisions, or simply being confused by decisions that a mildly decent understanding of the laws of the game would clarify (eg: the recent rush goalkicks being retaken because the ball is touched before it leaves the area; the spate of incidents several years back when a player went off for replacement equipment (new boots, shirt etc) and the refs made them wait for the next break in play while fans, managers etc were going nuts because their player wasn't being let on during play; the constant refrains of 'he got the ball', or 'he got the ball first' etc). That's not me trying to put the other side across, that's me observing players, managers, commentators and fans showing ignorance or partial ignorance of the current laws of the game when criticising referees. Whether refereeing standards are falling or not, I believe that to be true.

If it is the third of the above options, I would say yes, they should. At least players, managers and commentators (supporters can be forgiven). Players and managers should know the rules well as it is the structure within which they are supposed to do their jobs. Commentators should know the laws of the game really well because an aspect of their job they don't seem to take seriously is explaining decisions to their audience. Unfortunately they don't know the rules well, certainly not well enough to sit in judgement of the referees (generally speaking, obvious big errors excepted). They seem to know the basics of the game, but that's it. They tend to rely on their own understanding of the laws of the game which are often corrupted versions of the laws of the game from the period that is most formative for them, with a general knowledge of the big headline changes, and mix that up with what they think the laws should be. And that is a very unsteady ground on which to stand when passing judgement on refs.

 

[Hampster Gull]

I'm not entirely sure whether you're making light of a possibly poorly worded paragraph, and I'm too tired to see the joke; if you're thinking I'm suggesting refs don't know the rules that well; or if you think knowing the rules really well is one of the basics for players, managers, fans and commentators.

So first to clarify - I don't think managers, players, fans or commentators know the rules as well as they think they do when they try to second guess refereeing decision. That isn't me playing devils advocate, that's me seeing those groups criticise perfectly reasonable decisions, or simply being confused by decisions that a mildly decent understanding of the laws of the game would clarify (eg: the recent rush goalkicks being retaken because the ball is touched before it leaves the area; the spate of incidents several years back when a player went off for replacement equipment (new boots, shirt etc) and the refs made them wait for the next break in play while fans, managers etc were going nuts because their player wasn't being let on during play; the constant refrains of 'he got the ball', or 'he got the ball first' etc). That's not me trying to put the other side across, that's me observing players, managers, commentators and fans showing ignorance or partial ignorance of the current laws of the game when criticising referees. Whether refereeing standards are falling or not, I believe that to be true.

If it is the third of the above options, I would say yes, they should. At least players, managers and commentators (supporters can be forgiven). Players and managers should know the rules well as it is the structure within which they are supposed to do their jobs. Commentators should know the laws of the game really well because an aspect of their job they don't seem to take seriously is explaining decisions to their audience. Unfortunately they don't know the rules well, certainly not well enough to sit in judgement of the referees (generally speaking, obvious big errors excepted). They seem to know the basics of the game, but that's it. They tend to rely on their own understanding of the laws of the game which are often corrupted versions of the laws of the game from the period that is most formative for them, with a general knowledge of the big headline changes, and mix that up with what they think the laws should be. And that is a very unsteady ground on which to stand when passing judgement on refs.

 

[ringmerseagulltoo]

Thirty years ago I used to think English refs were the best in the world. I would watch continental refs strutting about, humourless and self important, and think they really didn't understand the ethos of watchable football. A few exceptions of course.

Now, I think it is quite right that we do not have the quality to ref the World Cup. I don't know where it has gone wrong since full time professional officials. Have we gone backwards or has everyone improved leaps and bounds?

 

[lawros left foot]

I'm not entirely sure whether you're making light of a possibly poorly worded paragraph, and I'm too tired to see the joke; if you're thinking I'm suggesting refs don't know the rules that well; or if you think knowing the rules really well is one of the basics for players, managers, fans and commentators.

So first to clarify - I don't think managers, players, fans or commentators know the rules as well as they think they do when they try to second guess refereeing decision. That isn't me playing devils advocate, that's me seeing those groups criticise perfectly reasonable decisions, or simply being confused by decisions that a mildly decent understanding of the laws of the game would clarify (eg: the recent rush goalkicks being retaken because the ball is touched before it leaves the area; the spate of incidents several years back when a player went off for replacement equipment (new boots, shirt etc) and the refs made them wait for the next break in play while fans, managers etc were going nuts because their player wasn't being let on during play; the constant refrains of 'he got the ball', or 'he got the ball first' etc). That's not me trying to put the other side across, that's me observing players, managers, commentators and fans showing ignorance or partial ignorance of the current laws of the game when criticising referees. Whether refereeing standards are falling or not, I believe that to be true.

If it is the third of the above options, I would say yes, they should. At least players, managers and commentators (supporters can be forgiven). Players and managers should know the rules well as it is the structure within which they are supposed to do their jobs. Commentators should know the laws of the game really well because an aspect of their job they don't seem to take seriously is explaining decisions to their audience. Unfortunately they don't know the rules well, certainly not well enough to sit in judgement of the referees (generally speaking, obvious big errors excepted). They seem to know the basics of the game, but that's it. They tend to rely on their own understanding of the laws of the game which are often corrupted versions of the laws of the game from the period that is most formative for them, with a general knowledge of the big headline changes, and mix that up with what they think the laws should be. And that is a very unsteady ground on which to stand when passing judgement on refs.

My criticism of referees is not based on not knowing the minutiae of the laws of the game, it’s the big obvious errors that seem to be occurring more and more in the game. Offside errors, wrong penalty decisions, missing obvious fouls, missing dives,these are the things that I find so frustrating. The ref and linos should have the best view of the play, if they consistently haven’t, they aren’t doing the job correctly, and yet how many times do you see the most obvious of offences wrongly called by the officials when anyone watching on the ‘terraces’ can correctly call it. I’m not talking about TV analysis, although it often only confirms what the watching supporters at the ground have seen.

 

[Arthritic Toe]

I think they are no better or worse than before, its just with the TV replays we now get to see exactly what the decision should have been. Statistically, these things do even up over time - thats how statistics work (with the possible caveat that the big clubs may get a degree of unconcious favour). For this reason, I still think VAR will be a bad thing.


I notice that Sean Dyche failed to trumpet on about wanting VAR yesterday - funny that.

 

[Acker79]

My criticism of referees is not based on not knowing the minutiae of the laws of the game, it’s the big obvious errors that seem to be occurring more and more in the game. Offside errors, wrong penalty decisions, missing obvious fouls, missing dives,these are the things that I find so frustrating. The ref and linos should have the best view of the play, if they consistently haven’t, they aren’t doing the job correctly, and yet how many times do you see the most obvious of offences wrongly called by the officials when anyone watching on the ‘terraces’ can correctly call it. I’m not talking about TV analysis, although it often only confirms what the watching supporters at the ground have seen.

I don't think it's fair to discuss the quality of refereeing and only focus on mistakes. That's like looking at a striker and only looking at the shots he misses. Ignoring his goals, his assists, ignoring his support play, his tracking back, his defending at set pieces, his holding the ball up, leadership, support for teammates, etc.

Refereeing isn't just getting the big decisions right. They are human beings so will make mistakes. We seem less accepting of that these days. We are less appreciative of the fact our view from the stands is completely different to that of the referee on the pitch.

I believe that when players, managers, commentators are questioning referee decisions it feeds through to fans. It builds into the narrative that refs are getting everything wrong (even when they are not) so think refereeing standards are worse than they are. Then when a referee actually makes a mistake, it is held up as further evidence in support of this false narrative of poor refereeing instead of the simply seen as a human being making a mistake (perhaps because of view/perspective).

Then you get the baader-meinhoff thing. We think refs are making more mistakes, so the mistakes they have always made start to get noticed more, and it seems worse.

 

[Geestar]

Can understand why we didn't have a ref at the World Cup

Sent from my TA-1020 using Tapatalk

 

[zefarelly]

It's worth noting that PL is,particularly fast, so refs need to be younger fitter and faster, and obviously better, which begs the question, should they be vetted at a higher level and paid more? The average pRemiershyte player earns more per week than a ref does a year.

Also the stakes are so high and business/money so,prevalent/important, that cheating is rife on the pitch ( yesterday is a good example)

VAR needs speeding up and introducing to all PL games (like cricket, let someone with all the replays make the call and tell the ref the facts)

Running the line at an u14's boys match is hard enough, so added professionalism, quality and technology is clearly the obvious and correct thing to do. The sooner the better.

We'd have still lost yesterday because we're not currentlY good enough, ho hum.

Thirty years ago I used to think English refs were the best in the world. I would watch continental refs strutting about, humourless and self important, and think they really didn't understand the ethos of watchable football. A few exceptions of course.

Now, I think it is quite right that we do not have the quality to ref the World Cup. I don't know where it has gone wrong since full time professional officials. Have we gone backwards or has everyone improved leaps and bounds?

 

[CaptainDaveUK]

I think there is a lot more blatant cheating going on which must make officiating more difficult. In regards to this the FA could do a lot more to stop cheats from prospering. For example, I think players feigning a head injury, should, for lots of reasons, be given a retrospective one match ban.

 

[lawros left foot]

I don't think it's fair to discuss the quality of refereeing and only focus on mistakes. That's like looking at a striker and only looking at the shots he misses. Ignoring his goals, his assists, ignoring his support play, his tracking back, his defending at set pieces, his holding the ball up, leadership, support for teammates, etc.

Refereeing isn't just getting the big decisions right. They are human beings so will make mistakes. We seem less accepting of that these days. We are less appreciative of the fact our view from the stands is completely different to that of the referee on the pitch.

I believe that when players, managers, commentators are questioning referee decisions it feeds through to fans. It builds into the narrative that refs are getting everything wrong (even when they are not) so think refereeing standards are worse than they are. Then when a referee actually makes a mistake, it is held up as further evidence in support of this false narrative of poor refereeing instead of the simply seen as a human being making a mistake (perhaps because of view/perspective).

Then you get the baader-meinhoff thing. We think refs are making more mistakes, so the mistakes they have always made start to get noticed more, and it seems worse.

Do you not think there are more game changing wrong decisions now, than say 10 years ago? I accept the officials are human, and will make mistakes, we all do, and I accept that they do have a more difficult job now, due to diving, and let’s face it, out and out cheating by some players, but, my point is, that the officiating by all the officials, including linos has reached a bit of a nadir in recent seasons. Until this last season I was never an advocate of VAR, I think it will slow the game, and lead to too many breaks, unless it is handled very well by the FA, but now, with the present refereeing standards I can’t see any other way of a fair game being delivered to all concerned.

There seems to be hardly a game go by now, that there is not a wrong , game changing decision by the officials.