Ralf Little - Clarke Carlisle

[Herr Tubthumper]

The PFA is rolling with cash so why haven't they helped ?

I know their union leader is...is there any left after his salary has been paid?

 

[Stat Brother]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of Carlisle's actions Little's outburst is very cheap, and very unnecessary. Little might have a valid point (I don't think it is personally) but now is not the time and the public arena isn't the place.

I read that with the impression Little had used all his right moments with CC and repeatedly got fobbed off.
If that were to be the case I doubt Ralf sees anything to be gain by waiting (again) for yet another right moment.

 

[Hotchilidog]

This thread is very pertinent to me atm. Some of you may have read what I wrote about my brother, who took his own life just before Christmas. Since then, I have been to his house and found much of the medical correspondence, notes of meetings, hand-written notes from medical professionals trying to get in touch with him and his own comments on his own life. His actions could be considered selfish but it is clear from everything I have read that this was the decision of a deeply troubled mind and one well beyond my comprehension. What caused his long decline will, most likely, never be established for sure. For sure, there are more selfish methods of committing suicide than hanging yourself (which is what Veggie Dave did) but maybe not everyone has that degree of "courage". It doesn't make them any less ill.

Several people have mentioned "sectioning", not really an option for depression I believe, given the current constraints and approaches to mental health.

Mental health is still much understood and, I believe, much feared. Whatever his own shortcomings as a human being, Clarke Carlisle has done a public service in making his problems well known. I wonder whether Ralf Little would have made similar comments if he had been suffering from terminal cancer or motor neurone disease?

For all those of you casting judgement - remember the old saying about walking a mile in someone's shoes.

Quite...Mental health is still very much a marginalised subject. I recall Stephen Fry revealing his failed suicide attempt on one of Richard Herring's podcasts. He was perfectly aware of how good his life was and how privileged he is but the depression just simply overwhelmed him, and he tried to kill himself. It is an illness in the same way that cancer is. It isn't anything you can just wave away or muddle through. You need treatment. For those of us fortunate enough to not suffer from depression, it can indeed be difficult to understand but that does not mean we cannot empathise.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

This thread is very pertinent to me atm. Some of you may have read what I wrote about my brother, who took his own life just before Christmas. Since then, I have been to his house and found much of the medical correspondence, notes of meetings, hand-written notes from medical professionals trying to get in touch with him and his own comments on his own life. His actions could be considered selfish but it is clear from everything I have read that this was the decision of a deeply troubled mind and one well beyond my comprehension. What caused his long decline will, most likely, never be established for sure. For sure, there are more selfish methods of committing suicide than hanging yourself (which is what Veggie Dave did) but maybe not everyone has that degree of "courage". It doesn't make them any less ill.

Several people have mentioned "sectioning", not really an option for depression I believe, given the current constraints and approaches to mental health.

Mental health is still much understood and, I believe, much feared. Whatever his own shortcomings as a human being, Clarke Carlisle has done a public service in making his problems well known. I wonder whether Ralf Little would have made similar comments if he had been suffering from terminal cancer or motor neurone disease?

For all those of you casting judgement - remember the old saying about walking a mile in someone's shoes.

Good post. I am fairly sure all those condemning CC and saying what he should have done are of clear mind and judgement never having spent a second of their lives suffering depression. It is sad the total lack of empathy and understanding, simply CC was of such a bad state of mind when he did what he did to call it selfish is absurd, he spent 3 days walking around looking at all the options to kill himself and lay on a railway track twice, but got up as the train was too slow, considered hanging and just wanted a 100% guarantee he would die so threw himself in front of a speeding lorry. Can a lot of the people on this thread even begin to imagine how tortured his mind was, how twisted and ill it is to even consider this ? Doubly sad as this disease has claimed lives of own NSC community

 

[herecomesaregular]

Good post. I am fairly sure all those condemning CC and saying what he should have done are of clear mind and judgement never having spent a second of their lives suffering depression. It is sad the total lack of empathy and understanding, simply CC was of such a bad state of mind when he did what he did to call it selfish is absurd, he spent 3 days walking around looking at all the options to kill himself and lay on a railway track twice, but got up as the train was too slow, considered hanging and just wanted a 100% guarantee he would die so threw himself in front of a speeding lorry. Can a lot of the people on this thread even begin to imagine how tortured his mind was, how twisted and ill it is to even consider this ? Doubly sad as this disease has claimed lives of own NSC community

I understand and respect your point but for me that's too simplistic and narrow a viewpoint.

 

[AIT76]

Carlisle mentions an incident with Little in his book, where Little lent him his bank card so that he could fill his car up with petrol but instead he used it for a weekend long solo drinking session.

 

[Billy the Fish]

As ever this debate has become rather binary.

I think it's entirely possible to feel sorry for CC and hope he gets the help that he needs, but at the same time to also hope that he is held to account for his actions.

 

[Lower West Stander]

As ever this debate has become rather binary.

I think it's entirely possible to feel sorry for CC and hope he gets the help that he needs, but at the same time to also hope that he is held to account for his actions.

Completely agree with this.

Various members of my family have suffered from depression over the years - and indeed one of them committed suicide. Depression makes you lose all sense of perspective on things and I think this is what a lot of us struggle to understand. I do, however, feel that depression worsens other character weaknesses which sufferers could make more attempts to change.

 

[The Wizard]

There's a cut of his interview with the sun on the BBC site and in all honesty he looks glazed eyed and the wordings he used I find particularly disturbing.

Put his past wrongdoings to one side, of which there are many, the one thing I would say with this, can you imagine how he must have felt in order to feel as though this was his only option? I find it difficult to judge his decisions given his state of mind, it's all too easy to judge and that all may not be as it seems with Clarke Carlisle, which in all probability is true, however the man is obviously extremely ill, I can't imagine how it feels to be tormented by your own mind. I can see where Little is coming from and I quite agree with lots of what he said but I personally think this shouldn't have been made public.

 

[LamieRobertson]

There's a cut of his interview with the sun on the BBC site and in all honesty he looks glazed eyed and the wordings he used I find particularly disturbing.

Put his past wrongdoings to one side, of which there are many, the one thing I would say with this, can you imagine how he must have felt in order to feel as though this was his only option? I find it difficult to judge his decisions given his state of mind, it's all too easy to judge and that all may not be as it seems with Clarke Carlisle, which in all probability is true, however the man is obviously extremely ill, I can't imagine how it feels to be tormented by your own mind. I can see where Little is coming from and I quite agree with lots of what he said but I personally think this shouldn't have been made public.

I doubt many could and thats the nub of it

 

[Ninja Elephant]

I understand and respect your point but for me that's too simplistic and narrow a viewpoint.

Simplistic? I genuinely don't understand how you can call US's viewpoint simplistic.

Personally, I think he nailed it.

 

[Worthingite]

I've kept quiet on this subject, both on here and with friends. But having had the time to read all sides as best as possible, my thoughts on it may surprise some people.

Last year, as some may remember, I suffered from a "mental health crisis". So I can understand well how CC felt, and can empathise with the situation he is in. Suffering depression is a cruel, frightening situation, it robs you of dignity, hope and perspective. But what it doesn't rob you of is the ability to ascertain right from wrong, and it certainly doesn't exonerate you from acting like a total degenerate. Admittedly alcohol abuse is not something that I have personal experience with, and it comes with its own issues and psychological impacts.

For me, the idea of putting the responsibility of my own fate in someone else's hands was something that was particularly unpalatable, and it was also ultimately the reason that stopped me from going any further (the idea of someone else finding me, or people having to explain to my young niece and nephew what had happened was hard to get my head around). One of my biggest fears was that my life was having a negative impact on others, so CC causing an accident involving others makes it hard for me to feel "sorry" for him or to have any particular empathy with his situation. He has repeatedly been offered help, from Sporting Chance, the PFA, and from his local mental health services. The fact that he hasn't followed through with those offers is down to him and him alone. The galling thing is that he has championed all these organisations and campaigned for better levels of understanding of mental health issues, despite effectively lying to himself.

I knew that even at my lowest that I didn't want to feel the way I felt, and that I wanted to get better for the people around me. He hasn't demonstrated that level of thinking, despite having a family, and for me that is sad, but also very self destructive. My hope for him is that he accepts the support on offer, forgets about being in the spotlight and being a flag bearer for mental health issues, and just concentrates on getting better, primarily for his family, but also for himself.

Apologies if most of this doesn't make sense or contradicts himself!!!!

 

[Lush's Bloke]

The sad reality of Clarke's (and all those close to him) struggle is similar to mine some time ago... I was a person who could not seem to be happy inside however good things seemed on the outside, I looked for something that would provide a 'quick fix' - usually alcohol. But when I did stop drinking for short periods, the awkward feelings returned and I only knew one way to cope..

You all have valid points of view as does Ralf Little. The only man who knows how Clarke is feeling is Clarke. I would not want to be in his head right now. I bet it is a terrible place to be trapped, and I do feel sadness for, and empathy towards him.

However his employers, his wife, his friends and family and the media may not actually be doing him any favours by sticking by him and forgiving him. It could be that they are enabling Clarke to continue repeating the same behaviour over and over again.It could be that Ralf Little is doing him a favour by saying enough is enough.

Clarke's depression is real, but until he stops 'fixing' himself with outside stuff, and starts to take responsibility for himself and his actions (something else I found hard) instead of relying on others to do that for him, then no anti-depressants or therapy will work.He needs help, no-one is questioning that. But he needs to stop his pride and ego getting in the way, and release control to people that can help.

Something or someone important in his life needs to break the cycle he has got trapped in. If the next thing he is about to lose is more important than drink, then I believe he has a chance.

 

[carlzeiss]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3149218/Van-driver-swerved-avoid-Clarke-Carlisle-dead.html

 

[LamieRobertson]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3149218/Van-driver-swerved-avoid-Clarke-Carlisle-dead.html

Wow...poor guy....huge sympathy for his wife/kids and parents etc

 

[glasfryn]

RIP Chris
you done good

 

[Mr Banana]

I can understand well how CC felt, and can empathise with the situation he is in. Suffering depression is a cruel, frightening situation, it robs you of dignity, hope and perspective. But what it doesn't rob you of is the ability to ascertain right from wrong, and it certainly doesn't exonerate you from acting like a total degenerate.

I'm amazed he could have the energy to do something that would harm anyone else like that. And the thought of even causing annoyance to anyone is unpalatable, let alone actually harming anyone. Perhaps there is a manic side of it. I can't imagine it, though.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

What a terrible outcome. RIP.