[Football] Raith Rovers and David Goodwillie

[Fat Boy Fat]

Can I just ask, to those saying “he should never play football again”, is there a list of jobs that are acceptable for rapists to pursue? If he had been a farmer, would you say he should never farm again?

I understand if there was risk involved, i.e. the victim had been a minor then he would be excluded from ever working with children. I don’t understand in this case, why he shouldn’t play football, if a club is stupid enough to employ him and are prepared to put up with the grief it will cause, then that’s their prerogative.

 

[portlock seagull]

There is a massive difference between drink driving and rape! He can be rehabilitated but that doesn't mean he has to get a job in football.

Well apparently you can. Deal with it. Unless u r minister for justice. In which case do something about!!

 

[cjd]

Not to sure about that, Goodwillie played his 1 and only game for palace in 2012, the rape was in 2016.

Although he did have a conviction for fighting with a doorman in 2008… just a bad egg.

As has already been pointed out to you, your lots rapist player, committed his disgusting offence in 2011....following at least two previous assaults. A bad egg indeed. What a pity your forum allows your scumbag colleagues to refer to our club captain as a sex offender on numerous occasions without any sort of rebuke.


Sadly, our moderators equally lack the ability to ban them from our forum.

 

[portlock seagull]

To be rehabilitated you need to show remorse. He has done no such thing.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

How do you know he hasn’t, and is that conditional (genuine question) as part of former prisoners reform and if so how is it judged or measured? Sorry, not familiar with the inner most details of justice system. My basic understanding is you’re allowed to work again with exceptions to certain jobs depending on conviction obviously.

 

[lawros left foot]

How do you know he hasn’t, and is that conditional (genuine question) as part of former prisoners reform and if so how is it judged or measured? Sorry, not familiar with the inner most details of justice system. My basic understanding is you’re allowed to work again with exceptions to certain jobs depending on conviction obviously.

As far as I can see from Court papers etc, the only ‘ punishment’ the court could inflict on the 2 rapists was a £100,000 compensation order for their victim. I don’t even think this would count as a conviction in the usual sense. As it was under Scottish jurisdiction, I must admit, I am quite confused.

Would a civil prosecution for rape be allowed in England? Would the weight of evidence be less in a civil case as it appears to be in Scotland? I do know neither ‘defendant’ did a single day in prison.

 

[portlock seagull]

Why would the club alienate its core support, over the employment of this scumbag, it doesn't make sense.
Rape is rape, this man should never be allowed to play football again.

But isn’t it their prerogative as to whether he should or should not given in the eyes of the law he’s allowed to? I would question why they’d want to do that more, given he’s not exactly say in some back office out of sight but open to abuse in a very public way with a very high profile employer that risks “brand reputation damage” (again their prerogative, but in the eyes of the law it’s legal)?

As mentioned previously, I think there’s a lot of anger about this that’s better attributed to the lenient sentencing of crimes like rape and murder which would mean we wouldn’t even be discussing this. I was disgusted to hear about a guy who kidnapped and threw his former girlfriend out of van on motorway. He’s going to be out in less than 4 years. She is crippled, can’t speak etc. life ruined in Prime of her youth. She’s the one serving a life sentence. Our laws aren’t fit for purpose in many instances it seems. But then the establishment knows best, we the peasantry would like hanging back but majority public view doesn’t get because we don’t know what we’re saying. Apparently.

 

[father_and_son]

Got to rehabilitate criminals into society. If he’s served his sentence, he gets a 2nd chance and someone’s provided him with. That’s how our society rules work. Equally if a sponsor decides to pull their support then that too is their prerogative. I don’t see the controversy really. Tony Adams did time for drink driving. He was allowed a 2nd chance. Our own Robert Codner…there’s a very long list of footballers who’ve done time and been rehabilitated.

Now, if you feel the sentence should have been longer for his crime so he could effectively never play again…that’s a different argument. Again though our sentences are what they are even if they are a bit of a joke IMO. Just watch 24hr in Police Custody though for a better understanding of how the CJS simply can’t cope with the volume of offenders. And boy do the villains know it!

Being a professional footballer is more than just what happens on the pitch though. Signing events, community activities, etc are all part of being a player in a community team, not to mention certain moral responsibilities as a role model. No one should be stopping him playing football, or indeed even getting paid to play football. However, the club have a duty as a self-named "community club" to hold themselves to a higher moral standard than, say, just a plain-old company with an office/warehouse/factory down the road. The factory/warehouse/office down the road don't invite your sons and daughters to come and have their photo taken with or autographs from their employees especially those employees are sex offenders.

 

[cjd]

Can I just ask, to those saying “he should never play football again”, is there a list of jobs that are acceptable for rapists to pursue? I

.

I would imagine that most careers are still open to character like Goodwillie.

It depends on who his future employer is.

In Goodwillie,s case the obvious answer despite his assault convictions in 2008...then again 2009.....and again in 2010....and then the rape in 2011......the obvious "go to " employer in 2012 would be Crystal Palace Football Club.

 

[albion534]

The fact he’s shown no remorse at all is bad form from the club.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[portlock seagull]

As far as I can see from Court papers etc, the only ‘ punishment’ the court could inflict on the 2 rapists was a £100,000 compensation order for their victim. I don’t even think this would count as a conviction in the usual sense. As it was under Scottish jurisdiction, I must admit, I am quite confused.

Would a civil prosecution for rape be allowed in England? Would the weight of evidence be less in a civil case as it appears to be in Scotland? I do know neither ‘defendant’ did a single day in prison.

As you say, different laws for different countries. Scotland isn’t very tough on its criminals by sounds of but then that’s none of our business. As they frequently remind us.

 

[lawros left foot]

The fact he’s shown no remorse at all is bad form from the club.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Since the rape he has been employed by 8 other clubs, either on loan or permanent contracts.

 

[Dave the hatosaurus]

Can I just ask, to those saying “he should never play football again”, is there a list of jobs that are acceptable for rapists to pursue? If he had been a farmer, would you say he should never farm again?

I understand if there was risk involved, i.e. the victim had been a minor then he would be excluded from ever working with children. I don’t understand in this case, why he shouldn’t play football, if a club is stupid enough to employ him and are prepared to put up with the grief it will cause, then that’s their prerogative.

Reading your post conjured up a picture in my mind of a farmer sitting in his tractor ploughing a field while thousands applauded from the fence line and television cameras on a gantry beamed his actions to many more on their tv sets !
The point i am trying to make is that football is much more in the public eye and a lot of players are lauded and cheered and i suppose this is why some ( i have to say myself included ) feel it is wrong that a person found to be a rapist is in such a position .
Regarding your last point , it is indeed their prerogative to employ him even if as you say a stupid decision but i wonder if you think it is wrong for people to protest that decision and if they are successful in reversing it would you have sympathy for the rapist or not ?

 

[portlock seagull]

Being a professional footballer is more than just what happens on the pitch though. Signing events, community activities, etc are all part of being a player in a community team, not to mention certain moral responsibilities as a role model. No one should be stopping him playing football, or indeed even getting paid to play football. However, the club have a duty as a self-named "community club" to hold themselves to a higher moral standard than, say, just a plain-old company with an office/warehouse/factory down the road. The factory/warehouse/office down the road don't invite your sons and daughters to come and have their photo taken with or autographs from their employees especially those employees are sex offenders.

Maybe as part of his supervision he’s restricted on those things? Do you know? Anyway, we can all have our opinions, but the club haven’t done anything wrong. In fact they’ve done precisely what society principles encourages them to do ie rehabilitate offenders. Big risk to their public image though, as they’re finding out! Because 2nd chances aren’t in many peoples vocabulary, especially for such offences and/or occupations.

 

[lawros left foot]

Maybe as part of his supervision he’s restricted on those things? Do you know? Anyway, we can all have our opinions, but the club haven’t done anything wrong. In fact they’ve done precisely what society principles encourages them to do ie rehabilitate offenders. Big risk to their public image though, as they’re finding out! Because 2nd chances aren’t in many peoples vocabulary, especially for such offences and/or occupations.

It was a CIVIL prosecution, there are no other restrictions. He had to pay a share of £100,000 compensation to his victim.

That’s it.

There was no other punishment.

No restrictions, no supervision,no prison time, no sex offenders register, nothing, nada , zilch.

 

[loz]

As has already been pointed out to you, your lots rapist player, committed his disgusting offence in 2011....following at least two previous assaults. A bad egg indeed. What a pity your forum allows your scumbag colleagues to refer to our club captain as a sex offender on numerous occasions without any sort of rebuke.


Sadly, our moderators equally lack the ability to ban them from our forum.

He played his 1 and only game 4 years before he was accused…. So I presume no one but the poor girl and the two men knew about it.

In 2016 Goodwillie and David Robertson, who was then a teammate of Goodwillie, were accused of committing rape in January 2011.[68] Goodwillie was charged with rape, but the Scottish legal authorities decided not to pursue a criminal prosecution.[68]

I would like to know who the palace fans are that come onto this forum and say such things ?

 

[portlock seagull]

Since the rape he has been employed by 8 other clubs, either on loan or permanent contracts.

Interesting point Lawro.

There is a basic premise in life that is no matter how great the crime, forgiveness is often granted if that person is highly valued for their skills / money making ability.

Just ask all those Nazi’s post WW2, that sort of thing.

 

[portlock seagull]

It was a CIVIL prosecution, there are no other restrictions. He had to pay a share of £100,000 compensation to his victim.

That’s it.

There was no other punishment.

No restrictions, no supervision,no prison time, no sex offenders register, nothing, nada , zilch.

Sorry. Understood. I don’t know anywhere near enough about criminal or civil law to really have an informed opinion. Only a moral one. It does seem daft you can be guilty in one but not the other for such a serious offence. I guess that’s why he won’t show any remorse. Because that’s admitting criminal guilt, of which he isn’t. Clearly if you’re guilty in the civil sense then most people judge you to be in criminal sense too. There’s a big difference though which most of us don’t observe seemingly, yes?

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

Reading your post conjured up a picture in my mind of a farmer sitting in his tractor ploughing a field while thousands applauded from the fence line and television cameras on a gantry beamed his actions to many more on their tv sets !
The point i am trying to make is that football is much more in the public eye and a lot of players are lauded and cheered and i suppose this is why some ( i have to say myself included ) feel it is wrong that a person found to be a rapist is in such a position .
Regarding your last point , it is indeed their prerogative to employ him even if as you say a stupid decision but i wonder if you think it is wrong for people to protest that decision and if they are successful in reversing it would you have sympathy for the rapist or not ?

To answer your last question first - no, I would have no sympathy. Rape is a choice crime, it doesn’t happen by accident.

I was more playing Devils advocate with my original question. I like your vision of the farmer being applauded from the fence. Maybe VAR would even get involved if his ploughing line isn’t straight!

Anyway, I digress. So somebody in Mr Goodwillie’s position shouldn’t be able to be in any position where they might get adulation, i.e. sportsman, actor, pop star and many other such professions.

Don’t get me wrong rape is a heinous crime and should be punished accordingly, I just don’t get the “he should never play football again” stance. As I said, if someone is stupid enough to employ him, with all the inevitable grief it will bring, then that’s their choice.

 

[lawros left foot]

He played his 1 and only game 4 years before he was accused…. So I presume no one but the poor girl and the two men knew about it.

In 2016 Goodwillie and David Robertson, who was then a teammate of Goodwillie, were accused of committing rape in January 2011.[68] Goodwillie was charged with rape, but the Scottish legal authorities decided not to pursue a criminal prosecution.[68]

I would like to know who the palace fans are that come onto this forum and say such things ?

The rape took place on January 1st 2011, it was reported to the Police on 2nd January 2011.

The Police investigated it, there was a forensic medical examination of the victim on the 2nd of January, and a witness statement taken. The Police in conjunction with the Procurator Fiscal dropped the case as the weight of evidence wouldn’t have been sufficient for a CRIMINAL prosecution. The victim decided to proceed with a CIVIL prosecution which only came to court in 2016.

All parties would have known this from the beginning.
The press also extensively reported the case in 2011.

 

[lawros left foot]

Sorry. Understood. I don’t know anywhere near enough about criminal or civil law to really have an informed opinion. Only a moral one. It does seem daft you can be guilty in one but not the other for such a serious offence. I guess that’s why he won’t show any remorse. Because that’s admitting criminal guilt, of which he isn’t. Clearly if you’re guilty in the civil sense then most people judge you to be in criminal sense too. There’s a big difference though which most of us don’t observe seemingly, yes?

I think you have summed up why there are only 5% of rape cases prosecuted, and only 2% of convictions. ( these numbers may not be 100% correct, but it in this area)

The burden of proof in a criminal case is beyond reasonable doubt, in a civil case, it’s within the bounds of probability.