[Football] Raith Rovers and David Goodwillie

[cjd]

I'm sorry, but seriously, what are you asking of the NSC moderators?

If a Palace fan or anyone else, posts slanderous / libellous allegations of that nature, about Dunk (for example) on here, then bring it to our attention, and I for one will take great delight in banning them.

If you are suggesting that you expect us to take action against posters' accounts on NSC, for things they may have written on their own (or any other) forum then that is absolutely bananas. Are we to start identifying people from their sign up info here, then constantly trawl their twitter, facebook, etc accounts to check they haven't written something, somewhere that you don't like?

That's insane.

I am to a degree in agreement with you on this.

Personally, I have long felt that Crystal Palace posters should be brave enough to use the same usernames on here as they do on their own forums...

I think in general the moderators on here have a great but thankless task. Your replies are often quite arrogant and blunt ( as said by many posters on here ) but I'm ok with that. I know you do your best.

 

[BBassic]

People are bailing out of that club en-masse it seems.

Sponsors, the women's team captain (with the rest of the team wanting to leave too seemingly), one of the chairmen, even the stadium announcer.

With everything going on up in Manchester this looks like such a colossal own goal.

If their fans decide to stop going in protest it could be devastating for them financially.

 

[mikeyjh]

Why do so many footballers find themselves in situations like Goodwillie and countless others have done? Are they that arrogant, that stupid? I sincerely hope that the clubs are providing some education on these matters.

FWIW, I always have concerns about the idea that 'criminals' are not able to re-enter society as I don't like the precedent but it's a tricky one....

 

[Pavilionaire]

Why do so many footballers find themselves in situations like Goodwillie and countless others have done? Are they that arrogant, that stupid? I sincerely hope that the clubs are providing some education on these matters.

He rebuilt his life at Clyde, he was scoring 2 in 3 and was made club captain. You wonder whether it occurred to him that to give that up and move on might put everything at risk, and / or potentially ruin any club he joined.

I get he has played for a lot of clubs since "the incident" but only Clyde once the verdict had been passed down. Even they got a load of shit when he signed and they were only in League 2 then.

 

[MJsGhost]

Why do so many footballers find themselves in situations like Goodwillie and countless others have done? Are they that arrogant, that stupid? I sincerely hope that the clubs are providing some education on these matters.

FWIW, I always have concerns about the idea that 'criminals' are not able to re-enter society as I don't like the precedent but it's a tricky one....

I’d say there are quite a few factors that might explain it (none of which would excuse it)

The environment they live & work in encourages huge ego and entitlement:
They are surrounded by people telling them how good they are.
They tend to get given or can afford to buy whatever they want.
There are plenty of wannabe football WAGS, so they don’t get very used to hearing ‘no’.

They will also have a high sex drive – I was at it like a bunny through late teens & 20s, so professional athletes will be another level again.
They don’t have the same education (academic or social) that you or I do.

So put a young, fit, virile man in a bubble where he and his mates are used to having what they want – without the ‘normal’ socialising that your average Joe goes through – and it’s potentially a pretty dangerous mix.

I’ve no idea of the actual statistics on it (or even if there are any available), but I wouldn’t be overly surprised if the rate of rape/sexual assault perpetrated by footballers is much higher than for the general population anyway. It’s just publicised more and registers with us as football fans more too.

In case I’ve left anyone in any doubt, I am not stating the above as excuses, just trying to make sense of why it’s more common amongst footballers (if indeed it is)

 

[The Clamp]

One can argue the rights and wrongs of hiring him til the ravens leave the tower but it’s just a simply bad decision to have him. Why would you want a rapist in your team? In the times we live in? Crazy decision.

Personally, no. I wouldn’t hire a rapist.

 

[keaton]

People are bailing out of that club en-masse it seems.

Sponsors, the women's team captain (with the rest of the team wanting to leave too seemingly), one of the chairmen, even the stadium announcer.

With everything going on up in Manchester this looks like such a colossal own goal.

If their fans decide to stop going in protest it could be devastating for them financially.

It appears the women's team have split from the club as an entity.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...goodwillie-signing?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

 

[keaton]

They're also not the only team handling things badly at the moment

https://www.football365.com/news/op...m-row-is-a-mess-that-was-completely-avoidable

 

[The Clamp]

If he is allowed to play he should only be allowed to keep the pay equivalent to 160 hrs of minimum wage per month, 50% of his wages he pays to his victims, the remainder to charity. He should also be gated. No signing events. No public appearances except matches. No overt socialising. Really nail the rapist down and see how keen he is to play then.

 

[Baldseagull]

It would be interesting to know the differences in 'evidence' required to gain either a criminal or civil conviction. It would seem sensible that a criminal conviction would be required to impose legally enforceable penalties, but it seems not in Scotland.

There was another case in the last few weeks of a woman in Scotland making a successful civil claim against a man for rape. He had been tried criminally and the verdict came back as "not proven", a verdict not available in England, if he had been found "not guilty", she could not have made the civil case against him.

 

[Seagull58]

And that means he can't work?

So if he apologised it would all be OK?

Not sure that's how the legal system works.

To be rehabilitated into society you are supposed to have acknowledged your guilt and expressed remorse. He is an unrepentant rapist.

 

[The Clamp]

A very high percentage of rapists re-offend. It takes a particularly nasty type of person to be a rapist. It’s not a slip up. It’s not a momentary lapse of judgement. It’s a deep seated, hard wired behaviour and even those that have been in prison and done the work are a real risk to women. This isn’t drink driving, burglary or even assault. I wouldn’t hire a rapist in any role, farmer, footballer or firefighter.
Rape is a heinous crime and rapists should be punished for life, rehabilitation or no rehabilitation. **** him. Dirty rapist.

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

To be rehabilitated into society you are supposed to have acknowledged your guilt and expressed remorse. He is an unrepentant rapist.

With my Devils advocate hat on again, maybe he doesn't think he is guilty, so saying "sorry" would mean nothing.

 

[The Clamp]

With my Devils advocate hat on again, maybe he doesn't think he is guilty, so saying "sorry" would mean nothing.

Thats why he should have gone to prison for rehabilitation.

 

[father_and_son]

With my Devils advocate hat on again, maybe he doesn't think he is guilty, so saying "sorry" would mean nothing.

Remorse is more than just saying sorry though. Boris has said sorry a lot recently but it's clear he's not actually feeling remorse about anything.

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

Thats why he should have gone to prison for rehabilitation.

But there wasn't deemed enough to prosecute him in a court of law, hence he didn't go to prison - so, maybe as I said, he doesn't feel he is guilty so doesn't need to show contrition or be rehabilitated.

 

[wellquickwoody]

There was another case in the last few weeks of a woman in Scotland making a successful civil claim against a man for rape. He had been tried criminally and the verdict came back as "not proven", a verdict not available in England, if he had been found "not guilty", she could not have made the civil case against him.

Thanks for taking the time.

I guess a perfect system is impossible. I have always been against the death penalty because of the risk of errors being made, even though people like Russell Bishop would have fully deserved it. As much as there are times that the balance of probability leans towards a guilty verdict, or in some instances a ‘not proven’ verdict, I find it difficult to support the imposition of what could be life changing penalties on those without criminal conviction. I am a great believer in imposed justice being seen as being as being as infallible as is.humanly possible, as it can then continue to have near the universal support of those subject to it.

I do wonder just how long someone without criminal conviction should continue to be penalised, 1 year, 5 years, forever?

 

[The Clamp]

But there wasn't deemed enough to prosecute him in a court of law, hence he didn't go to prison - so, maybe as I said, he doesn't feel he is guilty so doesn't need to show contrition or be rehabilitated.

Or maybe he’s a remorseless, heartless, entitled rapist? Who knows? The victims probably. Well, them and the civil court. Well, victims, the civil court and the court of appeal. Well, the victims, the jury, the civil courts, and the court of appeal. I suppose.

 

[Weststander]

Because one (or two in this particular case both males) were deemed to be intoxicated but aware enough to be expected to make an informed decision and the other (the victim) was deemed to be not able to give consent. Presumably, given there is mention of CCTV, the circumstances were self-evident... no consent, therefore the text book definition of rape. Had all 3 been shown to be completely sh*t-faced then perhaps, "on balance of probabilities" (the burden of proof required), the two men would have won either the first case or the appeal. To fail both suggests the CCTV is pretty damning.

I served on a jury where there was a serious sexual assault, everyone was drunk.

Found guilty.

The law and direction to juries was very specifically changed some years ago. The judge was clear on this to us mid trial.

A drunk alleged victim, can never be seen as a green light or construed green light, for perpetrators to do as they please.

 

[dejavuatbtn]

Thanks for taking the time.

I do wonder just how long someone without criminal conviction should continue to be penalised, 1 year, 5 years, forever?

In the case of Trump and Johnson, I think forever.