Racists on NSC

[Blackadder]

Re: Re: Racists on NSC

No, i don't think so. It must be you.

I have noticed a lot of left-wing PC fuckers on here though.

What? Lib Dems?

 

[3gulls]

Re: Re: Re: Racists on NSC

What? Lib Dems?

 

[looney]

I hardly think the left have room to moan on here about people calling them racists when they have bypassed concepts like Racialism and sexualism to promote their own political agendas and regularly conflate race/religion and culture.

 

[Rougvie]

I dont think they are anymore 'racists' around these days than there have always been, I think part of the problem on here stems from the LEFT wing posters who shout the loudest trying to tell us that everything is great in this country and that Asylum and immigration is the best thing for us all.

Most people think that yes, immigration is a good thing, and people of all backgrounds should be welcomed here if they want to make a contribution.

But....

There is a dark side to a lot of their views too, we should be allowed to debate the growing problem of people coming here because they want to live off benefits and claim all the other 'perks' that the goverment give them, thats not to say that some dont deserve them and have had terrible lives where they have come from, but the left simply denies that this happens and in their all too superior way, contstantly accuses normal reasonable people of believing what the read in the Daily Mail, and therefore making the assumption that they are stupid.

They are not, a lot of people are very concerned by the messages that a lot of musilims give out, people are also concerned about the seemingly beneficial treatment that Asylum seekers get above our own pensioners, they dont get this from the Daily Mail, they get it from word of mouth in their local communities. The left dont listen to that, and as a result of the attempt by them to stifle the debate, this causes resentment, and people who had reasonable opinions become more extreme and polarised because they feel that these people in the left, just like our present government, simply are not listening.

 

[Hampden Park]

I dont think they are anymore 'racists' around these days than there have always been, I think part of the problem on here stems from the LEFT wing posters who shout the loudest trying to tell us that everything is great in this country and that Asylum and immigration is the best thing for us all.

Most people think that yes, immigration is a good thing, and people of all backgrounds should be welcomed here if they want to make a contribution.

But....

There is a dark side to a lot of their views too, we should be allowed to debate the growing problem of people coming here because they want to live off benefits and claim all the other 'perks' that the goverment give them, thats not to say that some dont deserve them and have had terrible lives where they have come from, but the left simply denies that this happens and in their all too superior way, contstantly accuses normal reasonable people of believing what the read in the Daily Mail, and therefore making the assumption that they are stupid.

They are not, a lot of people are very concerned by the messages that a lot of musilims give out, people are also concerned about the seemingly beneficial treatment that Asylum seekers get above our own pensioners, to stifle the debate causes resentment, and people who had reasonable opinions become more extreme and polarised because they feel that these people in the left, just like our present government, simply are not listening.

bravo bravo

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

Trouble is with Immigration is that people get all the different types of immigration mixed up. The real trouble was the state of the asylum applications in the late 90's. The system was in tatters and loads of people who were really just economic migrants saw it as an easy way of getting in and staying in the UK. Because the system was so slow applications for asylum were taking upto 4 years to process which led to large numbers being allowed to stay not because they had a valid claim for asylum but that they had established strong roots here and it would be inappropriate for them to leave.

Of course this meant that everyone told all their friends and family to do the same and the problem multiplied.

Thankfully they sorted the asylum system out with claims being dealt with quickly, the UK lost it "soft touch" reputation.

The claims that immigrants to this country get loads of benefits is a complete and utter myth. Unless you are either a British Citizen or a UK citizen or have been granted leave to remain in the UK you don't get nothing.

 

[Dandyman]

I dont think they are anymore 'racists' around these days than there have always been, I think part of the problem on here stems from the LEFT wing posters who shout the loudest trying to tell us that everything is great in this country and that Asylum and immigration is the best thing for us all.

Most people think that yes, immigration is a good thing, and people of all backgrounds should be welcomed here if they want to make a contribution.

But....

There is a dark side to a lot of their views too, we should be allowed to debate the growing problem of people coming here because they want to live off benefits and claim all the other 'perks' that the goverment give them, thats not to say that some dont deserve them and have had terrible lives where they have come from, but the left simply denies that this happens and in their all too superior way, contstantly accuses normal reasonable people of believing what the read in the Daily Mail, and therefore making the assumption that they are stupid.

They are not, a lot of people are very concerned by the messages that a lot of musilims give out, people are also concerned about the seemingly beneficial treatment that Asylum seekers get above our own pensioners, they dont get this from the Daily Mail, they get it from word of mouth in their local communities. The left dont listen to that, and as a result of the attempt by them to stifle the debate, this causes resentment, and people who had reasonable opinions become more extreme and polarised because they feel that these people in the left, just like our present government, simply are not listening.

Rougvie, I do not think anyone is trying to stop the debate. The problem is that so much of it is based around misconceptions and misinformation. Some of that is just that people lack the facts, part of it that there are those that wish to distort the facts to suit their own extremist agendas.

Firstly two thirds of the world's refugees are living in the developing world, often in camps, African and Asia between tehm host over 60% of the world's refugees. Europe looks after about 25%. As an example of this the conflict in Sudan has forced about 4 million people from their homes and about 500,000 to other countries such as Chad. Fewer than 1500 Sudanese applied for asylum in the Uk in 2004 (Source: United Nations High Commissioner for Regugees quoted by the Refugee Council). In 2000 the UK ranked 32nd in the table of the world's refugee hosting countries on the basis of size, wealth and relative populations (Source: UNHCR)

A joint study by Oxfam and the Refugee Council in July 2002 found that most asylum seekers are living in poverty and experience poor health and hunger. According to the Home Office's own study (Home Office Research Study 243 - Understanding the decision-making of asylum seekers, July 2002) the prime reason for asylum seekers coming to the UK is that they have a family member or contact here.

Asylum seekers are barred from working for the first 12 months of their application. Their level of state support is set at 30% less than the normal level of income support.

According to the Home Office, again, Research Study 243 asylum seekers generally know very little about the benefits or asylum system in the UK. Social housing is allocated to asylum seekers rather than chosen by them. It is not paid for by local councils and is primarily "hard to let" accommodation.

According to police chiefs the "vast majority of people seeking asylum are law abiding citizens" (ACPO of England, Wales and Northern Ireland Asylum Seekers Policing Guide ).

According to the British Medical Association there are more than 1000 medically qualified refugees on their database. According to the BMA it costs just £10,000 to prepare a refugee doctor to practice in the UK, but over £250,000 to train a doctor fromn scratch (BBC News-on-line, 16 June 2004 ).

By all means let us have the debate but let us have it based on facts not on myths or hearsay.

 

[Dandyman]

Trouble is with Immigration is that people get all the different types of immigration mixed up...

The claims that immigrants to this country get loads of benefits is a complete and utter myth. Unless you are either a British Citizen or a UK citizen or have been granted leave to remain in the UK you don't get nothing.

Well said.

 

[Rougvie]

By all means let us have the debate but let us have it based on facts not on myths or hearsay.

That, in a round about way is what I am trying to say, I personally believe that immigration is a good thing, but when you are constantly spoken down to for questioning things, (lets not forget that there is also a vast 'black' economy, and people the govt no nothing about which cannot be presented in statistics) relating to immigration and the ENTIRELY different issue of Asylum, the voices that are shouting from the left are not only condisending in their superiority, they are shouting just as loud as those on the Right, which indicates to the average man on the street, that BOTH sets of views are extreme, and have a hidden agenda.

Its a bit like those on here that say McGhee is shit and the other lot say he is god, the people in the middle who want to question both opinions are not extreme enough for people to sit up and listen.

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

I agree about the extreme views. It seems one side says "Let no one in" and the other side says "Let everyone in" or "Don't kick anyone out"

 

[Lokki 7]

I agree with several of your points Rougvie, but from my perspective I think the reason the so called lefties shout so loudly and aggressively regarding issues of immigration and asylum is because there are often extremists from the right hiding behind these issues looking for mainstream support. You are right that sometimes this can stifle genuine debate, but the hate filled racists must never again be allowed to dupe the majority by playing on their fears and paranoia.

 

[Dandyman]

That, in a round about way is what I am trying to say, I personally believe that immigration is a good thing, but when you are constantly spoken down to for questioning things, (lets not forget that there is also a vast 'black' economy, and people the govt no nothing about which cannot be presented in statistics) relating to immigration and the ENTIRELY different issue of Asylum, the voices that are shouting from the left are not only condisending in their superiority, they are shouting just as loud as those on the Right, which indicates to the average man on the street, that BOTH sets of views are extreme, and have a hidden agenda.

I think we are probably in agreement up to a point. Immigration and asylum are two seperate things and I think the point is well made. I would also agree that we need to address the fears and misunderstandings of the "man in the street". I have tried to back up the points I have made by reference to publicly available documents. IMO it is up to those who feel what I have said is wrong to present an arguement based on more than mere assertion. In terms of the "black economy" for example it is worth noting that "overstayers" are predominately from the "Old Commonwealth" and, as you rightly say, a very different group from refugees and asylum seekers.

 

[Rougvie]

I think we are probably in agreement up to a point. Immigration and asylum are two seperate things and I think the point is well made. I would also agree that we need to address the fears and misunderstandings of the "man in the street". I have tried to back up the points I have made by reference to publicly available documents. IMO it is up to those who feel what I have said is wrong to present an arguement based on more than mere assertion. In terms of the "black economy" for example it is worth noting that "overstayers" are predominately from the "Old Commonwealth" and, as you rightly say, a very different group from refugees and asylum seekers.

Agreed, the thing that I dont like tho is the racist insinuations when you question what is going on, and the feeling that someone has such extreme views that they think by your questioning of the situation you are in fact racist.

I actaully find that a bit playground and petulant, from a personal point of view I work with 2 Polish guys and have been in Africa twice this year auditing UN work that the company I work for undertakes and really enjoy meeting people of ALL backgrounds, its just a shame that the extremists want to jump to conclusions, its a shame, as by their superior attitude to the people who only want to hear a balanced, objective debate they ailienate the people that they are most desperate to engage with.

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

I think the reason the so called lefties shout so loudly and aggressively regarding issues of immigration and asylum is because there are often extremists from the right hiding behind these issues looking for mainstream support.

Channel 5's prog last night 'Nazi Hate Rock' had one member of a British band saying that he wished they would open the floodgates to as many immigrants that wanted to come here as it would be the quickest way to spark a race war/mobilise people who don't currently share extreme right wing views into action.

 

[e77]

What I find cowardly is that some people on here are obviously racist but haven't got the guts to admit it and resort to innuendo.

Master race my arse.

 

[looney]

I agree about the extreme views. It seems one side says "Let no one in" and the other side says "Let everyone in" or "Don't kick anyone out"

I haven't herd anyone here say let no one in. This just reflects the hysteria and panic of the left that their knee jerk responce is to smear and project exstreme veiws.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

I haven't herd anyone here say let no one in. This just reflects the hysteria and panic of the left that their knee jerk responce is to smear and project exstreme veiws.

Be fair, Looney would still let in white american christian fundamentalists.

 

[Richard Whiteley]

I haven't herd anyone here say let no one in. This just reflects the hysteria and panic of the left that their knee jerk responce is to smear and project exstreme veiws.

what?

 

[looney]

what?

I haven't herd anyone here say let no one in. This just reflects the hysteria and panic of the left that their knee jerk responce is to smear and project exstreme veiws.

 

[looney]

Be fair, Looney would still let in white american christian fundamentalists.

Considering my often mentioned devout ATHEISM you consider this statement, what?

A responce to what you think I SHOULD beleive?