[Technology] Questions from a Luddite.

[Gwylan]

It's interesting reading this because it's clear that a lot of ways that companies operate are predicated on the idea how things should work rather than how they do.

For example. people talk about storing loyalty cards on a phone, so they're easier to carry around. It's fine in theory but I've gone back to physical cards as mobile data is so poor in this country, most of the time the cards were non-accessible. I also used to use my local library to print documents, mailing them to my Gmail account. But Google now uses 2FA every time I log on and, again, there's no mobile signal, so I have to use Hotmail (at least, until Microsoft uses 2FA and then I'm stuffed). Everything works on the assumption that there's voice and data services are universally available but they're not. I've just come back from a walking holiday in Yorkshire and, thankfully, had bought paper maps with me as most of the time, there's no signal anywhere!

And then there are the times when companies won't use technology. We're currently winding up my mum's estate and she had a lot of accounts with small amounts in them - a couple of hundred here, a couple of thousand there. Finance companies insist on sending us cheques rather than using BACS, which is a pain in itself but NatWest is shutting its Castle Sq branch shortly and the only branch that will be open will be in Hove. I'm hoping that all cheques arrrive before I have to schlep over there. It would make sense if you could cheques in on ATMs but the only ones that offer this are inside the branches - the ones that are closing down. Again, companies are operating on the assumption that there are bank branches everywhere.

Maybe things will improve with universal 5G or when 6G comes on stream but I'm not holding my breath.

(oh, and a pedant writes that a luddite isn't someone who can't use technology but someone who wants to see technology destroyed).

 

[Perfidious Albion]

I must say that I agree wholeheartedly with the original post here . I would not know what to with a digital ticket.
Sadly I have been unable to get to the Amex lately, largely through disability. Last time I went I printed my ticket at home , that worked ok , I gather that to go now I would have to buy an expensive new phone and try to learn what to do . I don’t mind paying for drinks by card if they will accept a card for a small amount.
All in all it is a headache. One feels that the world has taken a backward step to make things harder…..for the customer.

 

[schmunk]

For example. people talk about storing loyalty cards on a phone, so they're easier to carry around. It's fine in theory but I've gone back to physical cards as mobile data is so poor in this country, most of the time the cards were non-accessible.

You normally don't *need* internet access to use the cards in your mobile wallet, including making payments.

The phone stores a token (similar to a browser cookie) which allows a limited number of offline payments, although if this is used up you will need to reset it by going online again.

 

[Denis]

I've been wondering about the smartphone generation, and probate. What happens when someone who keeps all their data on a biometric protected phone, and they die? How do the executors know where the money is? The old fashioned way would be to look at bank statements and, if necessary, wait for more to arrive by post. How do they get hold of the information now?

I do absolutely everything, banking, utility bills etc on my phone. As I’m in my seventies, I’ve printed out a document with all my details, bank, shares, where my will and house deeds are, etc. and given a copy to both of my sons. I paid for someone to do the probate when my parents died, which away took all the stress.

 

[BNthree]

This thread is mainly:

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Thanks, but there it goes again. It just assumes, first that I know what 'Google Wallet' is, and second, that once I find out what it is, that I want it.

How do the elderly with no computer knowledge or the desire or ability to use a 'smartphone' actually get by these days I wonder.

Mate, I'm 65. The missus (somewhat younger) set up my google wallet, and my google pay. When I shop, travel on the tube, or watch the Albion I just wave my phone airily at a the relevant device. I have used money to but stuff maybe one in the last year.

Just ask a younger person to set it up for you. You'll love* it

*Until the phone doesn't update your season ticket, then you have to hand the phone to a young person who sorts it out for you. I would learn how to do it but I'm far to busy and important.

 

[BNthree]

I must say that I agree wholeheartedly with the original post here . I would not know what to with a digital ticket.
Sadly I have been unable to get to the Amex lately, largely through disability. Last time I went I printed my ticket at home , that worked ok , I gather that to go now I would have to buy an expensive new phone and try to learn what to do . I don’t mind paying for drinks by card if they will accept a card for a small amount.
All in all it is a headache. One feels that the world has taken a backward step to make things harder…..for the customer.

Can get secondhand phone off eBay for £20 that will do the job. Most households with people under the age of 50 in will have several unused older phones in drawers that are capable of being used for this. The phone doesn't even need a simcard. The biggest hurdle/obstacle to doing digital tickets is mindset. It takes a few minutes to learn how to do it at most and is hardly technical given it is geared up to the general population.

 

[Gwylan]

You normally don't *need* internet access to use the cards in your mobile wallet, including making payments.

The phone stores a token (similar to a browser cookie) which allows a limited number of offline payments, although if this is used up you will need to reset it by going online again.

That's just not true. And it's also reminded that this season I had to queue up for a paper ticket as I couldn't access the wifi at the stadium and I couldn't get my ticket to display. Like I said, everything is predicated on the idea that there's round-the-clock access everywhere.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Never heard of it and lived in the UK till 1987.

It was around the time firms stopped paying staff weekly in cash and switched to paying wages directly to a bank account.
Gradually after that, staff were switched to monthly pay, but for shop floor workers it took longer.

Even pensions were switched to going into bank accounts instead of having to queue every Tuesday, and old people being prey to muggers.

 

[Dr Q]

It's interesting reading this because it's clear that a lot of ways that companies operate are predicated on the idea how things should work rather than how they do.

For example. people talk about storing loyalty cards on a phone, so they're easier to carry around. It's fine in theory but I've gone back to physical cards as mobile data is so poor in this country, most of the time the cards were non-accessible. I also used to use my local library to print documents, mailing them to my Gmail account. But Google now uses 2FA every time I log on and, again, there's no mobile signal, so I have to use Hotmail (at least, until Microsoft uses 2FA and then I'm stuffed). Everything works on the assumption that there's voice and data services are universally available but they're not. I've just come back from a walking holiday in Yorkshire and, thankfully, had bought paper maps with me as most of the time, there's no signal anywhere!

And then there are the times when companies won't use technology. We're currently winding up my mum's estate and she had a lot of accounts with small amounts in them - a couple of hundred here, a couple of thousand there. Finance companies insist on sending us cheques rather than using BACS, which is a pain in itself but NatWest is shutting its Castle Sq branch shortly and the only branch that will be open will be in Hove. I'm hoping that all cheques arrrive before I have to schlep over there. It would make sense if you could cheques in on ATMs but the only ones that offer this are inside the branches - the ones that are closing down. Again, companies are operating on the assumption that there are bank branches everywhere.

Maybe things will improve with universal 5G or when 6G comes on stream but I'm not holding my breath.

(oh, and a pedant writes that a luddite isn't someone who can't use technology but someone who wants to see technology destroyed).

Do you not have the facility to deposit a cheque through an online account. My bank allows you to take a phone pic (both sides, not that theres anything usually on the reverse) and upload it to your account. Takes about a minute or so all told. I haven't physically paid a cheques into a bank for several years.

 

[BNthree]

That's just not true. And it's also reminded that this season I had to queue up for a paper ticket as I couldn't access the wifi at the stadium and I couldn't get my ticket to display. Like I said, everything is predicated on the idea that there's round-the-clock access everywhere.

Depends on the loyalty card. The majority are just an image file of the barcode that would have been on the back of a physical card and certainly don't need internet access to work. And usually digital tickets for the Amex would have updated way before the match. The system doesn't require the phone to have connectivity at time of entry.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Doesn't seem to explain how you can get in to the event you've paid good money for if you don't have a smart phone...........

My brothers both struggle with tech and the upshot is that middle brother, who used to use my second season ticket around 12 times a season now doesn't see any football. My little brother doesn't own a cellphone. We used to print a ticket for him but it is around an extra £8 a pop now. We offered to buy him a smartphone but he won't consider it. I pad £30 for my phone (from a friend who wanted to upgrade) and it's perfect for me. There are four people I txt, two I WatsApp, my work email and NSC that I look at when on the train (not often these days) so it is basically a smart credit card.

Don't let willful and intransigent technophobia disenfranchise you, @1066familyman. And, best of luck.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I do absolutely everything, banking, utility bills etc on my phone. As I’m in my seventies, I’ve printed out a document with all my details, bank, shares, where my will and house deeds are, etc. and given a copy to both of my sons. I paid for someone to do the probate when my parents died, which away took all the stress.

I am in the middle of making a document for my son, who is executor of my will, with the details of my bank acc, savings acc, funeral plan etc, so it will be easy for him to dispose of me and my worldly goods, along with my spouse.
Like you, I’m in my 70s and find utility bills via banking extremely convenient, along with annual payments via standing orders.

 

[GT49er]

It depended on your occupation.

......amd huge numbers of us didn't work in such an occupation (and even if you did, and played with those huge sheets of striped paper with holes down the side, or with thicker-tape, when you were at work, the likelihood of you having a computer at home was minimal).

 

[Thunder Bolt]

......amd huge numbers of us didn't work in such an occupation (and even if you did, and played with those huge sheets of striped paper with holes down the side, or with thicker-tape, when you were at work, the likelihood of you having a computer at home was minimal).

I didn’t mention having a computer at home. That’s the way you read my post.

When I said we had computers, it was the population as a whole.

Even the RN had computers in the 60s, that took up a whole room, on shore establishments.

 

[Official Old Man]

I've just paid my credit card via my phone. So what, you may say. I've apps for banking and card. Opened the card app and it asked if I wanted to pay my statement, I clicked yes and it went into overdrive. Select your bank, click, and the screen flashes a few times, asked for ID (fingerprint) and the bank and card app talked to each other transfering this money. Seconds later it was all over. For an old geezer technology has overtaken me.

 

[Gwylan]

And usually digital tickets for the Amex would have updated way before the match. The system doesn't require the phone to have connectivity at time of entry.

You're making my point for me. You're talking about the way things are supposed to work, not the reality. If the phone didn't need connectivity, then the tickets would display. But when it wouldn't display, the attendant at the gate said that I had to go and get a paper ticket. If tickets were updated before the game, then the correct season ticket would be displaying. But for the Man City game, my ticket was for Southampton; for the Southampton game, my ticket was for Everton and so on.

Yes, that's how it's meant to work, but the reality is very different

 

[BrianB]

It sounds like you've received an eticket if the email has a QR code. Don't worry about a wallet, probably isn't applicable. Just print out a copy of the email or let the venue scan the qr code in the email from your phone.

There lays part of the problem.
Example...
A few years ago my landline ( long gone ) rings , Mum ' what's a qr code ?' Me ' I'll ring you back in a couple of minutes ' ..asks Google....... ' it's a box with lots of dots in it ', Mum ' then why call it a code when it's a box and not a line ?'....
If it was called a qr box the confusion would be far reduced ..

 

[The Clamp]

Thanks. Yes, that's the conclusion I've arrived at. Which then of course begs the next question.

What if I don't have a printer at home or carry around a smart phone?

Sometimes, as shit as those times were in terms of many public attitudes, I'd gladly return to the 1970's. Things were so much simpler then.

I sympathise. But I think the answer here is to get a smartphone.

Or take your desk top computer and a generator to the ground.

I have similar issues with my dear Nan. Never used a computer/ smart phone. Won’t even use email which is a pain as she has moved to Australia.

 

[1066familyman]

This thread is mainly:

Actually, when I started this thread, it was more like...

Old man shouts at sky.