Quality of refereeing

[wakeytom]

Is awful at the moment, time after time deciding the game, especially in the premier league where they are meant to be the best. Just seen the tottingham game and Kane was going down before the arm even went on him, and after the 5 mins of added on time.

That added to the horrendous decisions against Chelsea yesterday, all this money in football and nothing is done about it, are we paying ref's enough, should they be on a bonus for a good game and why are we not using technology - 4th officials with a screen etc.

This continues to happen and I am sure I am not the only one that is becoming even more disillusioned with football.

As a footnote I have no affinity to either West Ham or Chelsea but 2 teams that have suffered at the hands of the officials this weekend alone

Cannot change the title!

 

[Knightsworld]

You forgot to mention that WHU should have been down to 10 when the ref failed to send Noble off for a second bookable. Evens itself out.

 

[wakeytom]

You forgot to mention that WHU should have been down to 10 when the ref failed to send Noble off for a second bookable. Evens itself out.

How is that even? Teams who have had a red card against them often rally and it does not equal a goal!

 

[studio150]

Not sure that it is any worse than previously there have always been poor decisions made by referees.

I just wonder what the Special Ones comments would have been in respect of the penalty at Southampton when Dunk's challenge was made almost in the stand, or any of the penalties that Bournemouth always seem to get when playing us.

However i think the worse decision I have ever seen occurred at the Goldstone, the Albion score but disallowed for offside, the only problem was that there was still a defender standing on the post, having not run out as the rest of the team following a corner.

The issue is that these days every PL game has loads of TV cameras recording the action, which is then reviewed and reviewed to highlight incidents. I also think that some of the TV commentary probably influences the FA when looking to bring retrospective action

 

[Norman Potting]

refereeing shorly?

 

[Acker79]

Cannot change the title!

Edit > go advanced

 

[Algernon]

Paying the refs more won't change a thing.
For me the major issue is the tendency for players to cheat to win at all costs. Refs can't be expected to get 100% of the decisions right (as the majority of them are only human) when even with slow motion replays so called expert pundits can't decide what's legit or not.
Football should have more technology, manned by totally independent adjudicators (ex players have subtle and not so subtle team allegiances) and I think it's slowly moving that way.
I hope they implement something soon as I know that my love for the game has diminished greatly when week in and week out the cheats seem to always have such a defining influence on the outcome of a match.

 

[Icy Gull]

Paying the refs more won't change a thing.
For me the major issue is the tendency for players to cheat to win at all costs. Refs can't be expected to get 100% of the decisions right (as the majority of them are only human) when even with slow motion replays so called expert pundits can't decide what's legit or not.
Football should have more technology, manned by totally independent adjudicators (ex players have subtle and not so subtle team allegiances) and I think it's slowly moving that way.
I hope they implement something soon as I know that my love for the game has diminished greatly when week in and week out the cheats seem to always have such a defining influence on the outcome of a match.

It's the Latin influence on the game, both players and managers. Remember how much we cheated under Poyet for something closer to home.

 

[Acker79]

Refereeing is made more difficult by

-players, managers and fans seeing things through their own affiliation,
-players/fans/pundits/journalists trying to re-referee the game without truly acknowledging the laws of the game as they currently are
-the money in the game making winning more important than playing fairly leading to players and so on trying to get away with whatever they can
-fans/managers not wanting to criticise their players, so criticising refs
-pundits/fans/managers not accepting that if you want to eliminate diving, you have to eliminate flamboyant falls and until they stop some genuine fouls will not be given and fouled players will be booked for diving,
-fans/managers wanting to get away with everything while their opponents are punished for everything, severely.
-an increasing anti-authority feeling in society being reflected in football - it's not the players fault they broke the laws of the game, it's the ref who should be criticised for punishing the player accordingly, much like it's the speed cameras fault it collects so many fines and not the fault of the speeding driver.-Every referee is expected to make the same right decision in every similar situation and still somehow please a group of pundits/journalist who each have different ideas of what is the right decision.
-The same thing that people accuse with brighton players being scape-goated (we decide the refereeing is bad, so look at every decision and rather than accepting until proven otherwise, we decide it's wrong first and wait for the ref to be proven right - we frequently hear commentators question a decision first and wait for a couple of replays before accepting the ref made the right call)
-Refs being human beings who will make mistakes while generally doing a good job, having a poor day at the office, and having a poor run of form.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

Paying the refs more won't change a thing.
For me the major issue is the tendency for players to cheat to win at all costs. Refs can't be expected to get 100% of the decisions right (as the majority of them are only human) when even with slow motion replays so called expert pundits can't decide what's legit or not.
Football should have more technology, manned by totally independent adjudicators (ex players have subtle and not so subtle team allegiances) and I think it's slowly moving that way.
I hope they implement something soon as I know that my love for the game has diminished greatly when week in and week out the cheats seem to always have such a defining influence on the outcome of a match.

Having non-footballers calling the shots will make things 10 times worse.

 

[jevs]

Noble was lucky to be on the pitch. This his only saving grace was if he sent Noble off, the Spurs player would've had to go too for pushing him.

As for the penalty.....dirtycheatingfilthyscumbag*****. That's all

 

[W.C.]

Isn't the incessant rolling news culture we live in more the issue? How ever many camera angles, slow motion replays etc.

Impossible job.

 

[drew]

Well my take on it is that referees are spoiling the game and, despite the shenanigans of players and managers, it is down to their general incompetence and that of their officials. They have the power to book players for foul language but hardly ever do, seemingly allowing a little bit of 'grace'. If they set their stall out from the first minute then that would improve the game. They seem happy to accept time wasting using the excuse that they add on time at the end. Well what they add on is, in the main arbitrary. 30 seconds added for a goal and 30 seconds per sub. After that, who knows how they arrive at what extra to add on. Again, first sign of time wasting, get the yellow card out. Also, a bad tackle in the first minute is worth a booking just as much as the same foul in the last few minutes.

Players don't respect refs because refs don't earn it any more. Look at yesterday's game, a free kick to Brum saw their player wipe out the foam line in front of the ball and move it forward whilst the ref was busy sorting out the wall. Why did the assistant not see that and if he did, why is there no booking for, what should be, dissent. Same as David Luiz the other day. Why hasn't he been charged.

Another thing that really annoys me is the lack of post match communication by refs. As I understand it, they are allowed to be interviewed to discuss decisions but they seem to have taken the collective view never to do that. Perhaps if they held up their hands and admitted they are human or by given the rationale as to why they did or didn't give a decision then maybe they would get better treatment.

So, the refs could do a lot to sort out some of the problems but they chose not to so no sympathy from me.

 

[Cadiz Seagull]

They have the power to book players for foul language

The law may have changed since I was a registered referee but back then foul and abusive language was red card.

Except we didn't have red cards then, but you know what I mean.

 

[severnside gull]

Is awful at the moment, time after time deciding the game, especially in the premier league where they are meant to be the best. Just seen the tottingham game and Kane was going down before the arm even went on him, and after the 5 mins of added on time.

That added to the horrendous decisions against Chelsea yesterday, all this money in football and nothing is done about it, are we paying ref's enough, should they be on a bonus for a good game and why are we not using technology - 4th officials with a screen etc.

This continues to happen and I am sure I am not the only one that is becoming even more disillusioned with football.

As a footnote I have no affinity to either West Ham or Chelsea but 2 teams that have suffered at the hands of the officials this weekend alone

Cannot change the title!

If you are referring to the refereeing today you should do a quick replay and you will see the penalty was awarded 12 seconds before before the minimum period of extra time ended. You might also note that not even Fat Allardyce disagreed with the award and Song clearly had his arm on Kane's neck. In this instance the referee's judgement was faultless.
Which is less than be said for his remarkable generosity in not sending Noble off or the terrible decision by the assistant that allowed Wet Sham's second goal when Valencia was clearly offside and jumped for the ball thereby meeting all the criteria for a simple decision.
The problem currently is less the referees and very much the rule changes which have made consistent decision making impossible.

I entirely agree with Drew when he says referee's should be required to attend a post match interview with the press just as managers have to do. It's amazing how being publicly accountable can impact on performance (unless you are a politician).

 

[Acker79]

Another thing that really annoys me is the lack of post match communication by refs. As I understand it, they are allowed to be interviewed to discuss decisions but they seem to have taken the collective view never to do that. Perhaps if they held up their hands and admitted they are human or by given the rationale as to why they did or didn't give a decision then maybe they would get better treatment.

I don't see that helping much. Referees will say one of two things:

1) "the laws of the game say [yaddayaddayadaa], and in my opinion that is what happened, so I made that decision, and I was right"
Which will either lead to fans/players/pundits/journalists accepting he is right, or disagreeing, saying he is wrong, doesn't know anything, get some ex-players in as refs, etc. The conversation will be the same as it usually is now, except instead of a commentator or the fans/players/teams that benefit from the decision explaining the rule we have the ref doing it. Which really makes it pointless. We have people who can explain the laws of the game, and then people will judge the decision anyway.

2) "This is the law [yaddayaddayadda] in that moment I thought that occurred and made the decision accordingly, however, I accept now I got that wrong"
In which case we get the same conversation we have now, plus the bonus of people using that admitted error as stick to beat the ref with. Instead of accepting sometimes mistakes occur, the ref becomes known as the one who got that wrong. Players constantly reminding him of his error to put doubt in his mind (one of my concerns with having video technology is that it won't as many suggest lead to players being confident in the ref's decisions, but highlight his mistakes leading to further undermining of his authority).

The ref won't be able to tell us what we don't already know, or can't find out for ourselves. If we know the laws of the game, we can look at each decision and will usually be able to tell if the ref got it "right", made a judgement call that you disagree with, or got it wrong.

 

[Acker79]

The law may have changed since I was a registered referee but back then foul and abusive language was red card.

Except we didn't have red cards then, but you know what I mean.

It is now a red card offence to use "offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures", meaning swearing in and of itself is not necessarily a red card, because while it may be 'foul language' it might not be deemed 'offensive' and if it isn't directed at a person it might not be deemed insulting or abusive.

 

[mothy]

Saints v Liverpool. Ref ignored a stone wall penalty either because he is incompetent or biased / paid

 

[glasfryn]

some of them definitely need to be quietly retired, especially those that love to be the centre of attention .........or shot

 

[Algernon]

Having non-footballers calling the shots will make things 10 times worse.

If all decisions are made according to the rules of football then it shouldn't matter. Have three independent non footballers sit separately in adjudication with replay screens and 2 of the three must agree the decision for it to be upheld.
I'm not certain when they would be called upon, maybe when the ref calls for the video ref as in rugby.
Maybe (and I know this won't be popular and I'm just throwing it out there) the respective Managers could "challenge" a decision (max three times) as in the NFL.

I know that seems shoite to some but football hasn't always been played the way we see it today. Who knows what they may end up doing? If anything! I just know that something needs to be done before the next, or the next generation of players accept the cheating way as the norm. I still have faith we're not quite there yet.