[News] Public Sector Pay Rises

[Comrade Sam]

It's still not fair, because anything below inflation is a pay cut - so 6.5 is not a pay rise, it is at least a 1% pay cut.

 

[Weststander]

I would rather they put MPs salaries at a level that would attract people who are reasonably competent.

And ban other external income sources whilst an MP.

 

[Weststander]

It's still not fair, because anything below inflation is a pay cut - so 6.5 is not a pay rise, it is at least a 1% pay cut.

That’s how an economy works.

90% plus of us will have a lower income in real terms than say in 2019. Some years we pull away, others we fall back.

You’re putting forward the arrogant argument of the ASLEF leader that drivers must absolutely every single year get a wage increase equal or greater than RPI.

 

[Hugo Rune]

It's still not fair, because anything below inflation is a pay cut - so 6.5 is not a pay rise, it is at least a 1% pay cut.

Prior to this, Junior Doctor’s pay has fallen by 10%-16% in real terms once inflation is calculated (using CPIH calculation) since 2010. MP’s pay, by the same measure, has fallen by just 0.6% in the same period.

This offer for the Doctors does not seem enough to me.

 

[Comrade Sam]

That’s how an economy works.

90% plus of us will have a lower income in real terms than say in 2019. Some years we pull away, others we fall back.

You’re putting forward the arrogant argument of the ASLEF leader that drivers must absolutely every single year get a wage increase equal or greater than RPI.

How comes it's always the rich that are allowed to have pay increases way above inflation and the rest of us below? It's f*cking disgraceful how society is run and it's not your job to make excuses for it - unless you got an above inflation pay rise?

 

[Bodian]

It's not all public sector workers either. It doesn't cover local government / local authority staff (councils and so on). That's more of a 3.5-5.0 % payrise.

 

[Goldstone Guy]

Social Services/Public Sector here.

Most of the people (read: everyone) that I work with would rather take a pay cut and have more staff available to share the - frankly catastrophic- workload with.

This will provide infinitely better quality of life to staff, and services, than any pay increase.

This sums it up perfectly for me (NHS worker). The working conditions are more problematic than the real-term pay cuts. As others have said, the likelihood with the 6% increase is that workload will go up. Prepare for more staff leaving and worse public services. I feel sorry for Labour/whoever wins the next election as it really is a huge mess and will take years, possibly decades to sort out in my opinion. Hopefully I'm wrong.

 

[Berty23]

I would rather they put MPs salaries at a level that would attract people who are reasonably competent.

I don’t understand why quite a few apply this argument to MPs but then we have the same MPs saying public sector pay rises are too high. Then they moan about the quality of the civil service. It is all very strange how they do that.

 

[Weststander]

How comes it's always the rich that are allowed to have pay increases way above inflation and the rest of us below? It's f*cking disgraceful how society is run and it's not your job to make excuses for it - unless you got an above inflation pay rise?

That’s a separate matter, the wealthy should be tackled in various new ways. Hopefully starting with Starmer acting from Dec 24, but I’m cynical.

Regarding wages specifically, Board members/senior management of listed companies should not get % pay rises greater than workers.

But the entire UK workforce or entire UK public sector workforce cannot be guaranteed an RPI equalling or beating wage increase every year ad infinitum. That becomes a paper printing exercise we saw in the late 70’s, everyone increases their prices to match, RPI spirals and the global markets attack the UK.

 

[The Clamp]

There must be a way to give low income workers an above inflation pay rise without tanking the economy? Perhaps we could take a look at how the super wealthy manage to give themselves above inflation pay rises? Bear with me, there's logic to this. We take a look at how the wealthy manage to get above inflation pay rises and then we somehow, I'm not a details man but we somehow apply that to people with low incomes? Could that be a possibility?

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

There must be a way to give low income workers an above inflation pay rise without tanking the economy? Perhaps we could take a look at how the super wealthy manage to give themselves above inflation pay rises? Bear with me, there's logic to this. We take a look at how the wealthy manage to get above inflation pay rises and then we somehow, I'm not a details man but we somehow apply that to people with low incomes? Could that be a possibility?

I think this might involve the very rich giving themselves slightly smaller pay rises.
And that, obviously, is impossible.

 

[The Clamp]

I think this might involve the very rich giving themselves slightly smaller pay rises.
And that, obviously, is impossible.

Ah! I knew there would be a perfectly reasonable explanation. Of course we cannot have that. Unthinkable. Forget it.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Ah! I knew there would be a perfectly reasonable explanation. Of course we cannot have that. Unthinkable. Forget it.

Don't worry about it. We're not rich enough to comprehend these serious economic issues in our tiny little minds.

 

[portslade seagull]

Not to mention public sector pensions. My NHS nurse wife sees 31.38% paid into her pension scheme, net of tax relief she's contributing 8.56% of that. Teachers pension scheme arrangements are very similar.

A union leader on Nicky Campbell today was involved in a childish 'shouting over each battle' with a caller. The leader when challenged on this, stated that many in the priv

Aren't most in government employment still on final salary pensions. My pension went balls up years ago from 1-60th to 1-120th b4 I left and for the poor guys still there has diminished even more

ate sector are accruing similar pension rights too. He was talking out of his ars

 

[beorhthelm]

Prior to this, Junior Doctor’s pay has fallen by 10%-16% in real terms once inflation is calculated (using CPIH calculation) since 2010. MP’s pay, by the same measure, has fallen by just 0.6% in the same period.

This offer for the Doctors does not seem enough to me.

Doctors go up their pay grades every year though. There's no doctors from 2010 still on their junior plus inflation rate, they're all consultants on 80k +

 

[Hugo Rune]

Doctors go up their pay grades every year though. There's no doctors from 2010 still on their junior plus inflation rate, they're all consultants on 80k +

No they are not all consultants.

I really can’t be bothered to find more links than this but…

Resident doctor (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

“Doctors typically may be junior doctors for 8–20 years.”

 

[Weststander]

Aren't most in government employment still on final salary pensions. My pension went balls up years ago from 1-60th to 1-120th b4 I left and for the poor guys still there has diminished even more

Yes, or career average.

 

[beorhthelm]

No they are not all consultants.

I really can’t be bothered to find more links than this but…

Resident doctor (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

“Doctors typically may be junior doctors for 8–20 years.”

fair enough, not all make it to consultant by 12 years. they still have a pay scale that rapidly takes them a long way from the basic.
here more info of how that looks. or their pay table in more detail.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

And ban other external income sources whilst an MP.

Would you give up a career in order to risk 5 years as an MP then lose your livelihood at the next GE?

Not me.

There is an argument that it is right that only the wealthy should stand as MPs in unsafe seats. The beast of Bolsover had a sinecure, so he could be a working class hero at no risk. But in the most important seats, the swing seats, ironically the candidates have the riskiest and most unsafe futures. I would be putting my family at risk if I gave up my academic position to engage with that.

At extremis, that's why only billionaires can afford a run at the US presidency.

As I always say, we get the governments we deserve.

I don't know what the answer is.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

fair enough, not all make it to consultant by 12 years. they still have a pay scale that rapidly takes them a long way from the basic.
here more info of how that looks. or their pay table in more detail.

You have to be a fool to not end up on decent money in medicine. Eventually. But you can still be on very modest income well into your 30s if you attempt to be a hospital consultant. A pal of mine, early 30s, could not risk his marriage (3 kids) in his early 30s, working all hours, so he got a job in Canada. Still nearly lost it all, but is now comfortable.

And the standard of care, now, has diminished, with underpaid staff, relative to 15 years ago, on a highway to shit or bust.

Still better than being a teacher or nurse.

All part of the levelling down agenda.