[Politics] Protests/rioting in lots of places

[jackalbion]

30 more planned 'gatherings' today. Bring in the army; stop fannying around.

I thought Rangers played yesterday?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Agreed. Not only would legislation be a PITA for NSC but it would achieve nothing. You cannot "uninvent" the internet and plenty of people would be able to access anything that was unilaterally banned here. If we're just talking legal action then that action should be against the individual and not the platform. In fact, it's great that Tommy's been drunk tweeting from Cyprus. Sure, he's inspired a few hate mobs but many more people will have been turned off by his bile and he's likely to tweet himself into a jail cell sooner, rather than later.

What Elon would hate is losing advertising revenue (he's today trying to sue companies that withdrew ads in 2022 in the US). Are there any big sponsors or advertisers left who are happy to be associated with his right wing conspiracy theories and the racism of many of his users? Let's hope not......

Musk is also doing himself no favours ‘inciting civil war’ in England, and in Europe. People are laughing at him.

 

[nwgull]

Bringing in martial law only gives credence to the racists.

Yes, it’s a very slippery slope bringing the army in for civil disorder. Why would the army be any more effective than the Police, who are trained specifically for this stuff anyway?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Yes, it’s a very slippery slope bringing the army in for civil disorder. Why would the army be any more effective than the Police, who are trained specifically for this stuff anyway?

Exactly, and no firearms on show.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The Guardian has a higher quality of journalism than the Daily Mail.

I didn't put it as 'expert' the poster I was replying to did. You will note that my post said that reading the Guardian would push you a 'little' closer to becoming an expert. I then went on to describe what else someone would need to do to become an expert.

How you came to the conclusion described in your last sentence is beyond me, it bears absolutely no resemblance to what I wrote in my post. I suggest you re read it.

I agree. Conflating liars on X with articles in the Guardian, using opinion pieces in the Guardian as a bridge, is only one step away from the great trope of the right: "They are all the same and all as bad as each other".

It is amazing how easily people fall into this trap even though they would see themselves as reasonable and balanced (and on the whole are reasonable and balanced).

You need to stay alert to avoid being sucked into the world of perverse tropes. We all do it when it suits us. I admit to it. But I hope I can also hold up my hand when corrected (with facts).

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

30 more planned 'gatherings' today. Bring in the army; stop fannying around.

Live ammo.

Edit: I'm being facetious. And I think the police can deal with this perfectly well by themselves.

 

[Springal]

Sad to see a care agency is struggling to find care workers prepared to travel into areas with protests planned based on their safety

I’m sure the far right will ‘look after their own’

 

[Bry Nylon]

Yes, it’s a very slippery slope bringing the army in for civil disorder. Why would the army be any more effective than the Police, who are trained specifically for this stuff anyway?

Plus the armed forces have no power of arrest over civilians; might as well deploy store detectives and traffic wardens.

 

[Triggaaar]

I salute your indefatigability. Again.

(I don't have such patience and put the oddball on ignore years ago. I have a lovely cat who I can talk to when I feel no need for a coherent reply.).

I don't know Fergus, or if he's had other names, but I think there are plenty of people in our country who aren't particularly racist, who are concerned about the immigration levels in this country. That they think the media are lying to them, and that the politicians don't care, is a concern.

I think it's worth engaging with them as a whole. Just ignoring the millions who voted reform is not the solution IMO.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I think there's a point about people being more open about their mental health issues. There's also a point about the increase in times it's being used in bad faith to mitigate a prison sentence.

But I think the bigger picture is that we hear about violent crimes more than we did and there's more outrage on social media and this affects our perception of how safe our nation is.

Look at this

Crime in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

Crime against households and people aged 16 years and over, using data from police recorded crime and the Crime Survey for England and Wales (CSEW).

www.ons.gov.uk

Over the last few decades

Overall crime = well down
Violent crime = miles down from 20 years ago
Theft, burglary = miles down from 20 years ago
Murder = less than half than 20 years ago
Knife crime up, but not as far up as gun crime is down

This is despite a rising population, increased immigration and falling police numbers

There are some fair counter points about the increase in reported sexual crimes

I'm not saying we're in a land of perfection. But I do think we, as a nation, and (with genuine respect to you for all you've done) you as an individual should weight the horrors and outrage which you view on social media against, the knowledge that there's always been crime, there's always been perverts, there's always been murders, and sometimes it's been children, but on average we're safer than we've ever been.

Spot on. Perception is everything, and we game risk to suit our prejudices.

When I moved to Vancouver in 82 I was shocked to hear people, at a dinner party, bang on about how dangerous Vancouver was.

I had come from a London where you had to take great care where you went, especially if you looked a bit 'funny'. I did look a bit 'funny'.

In contrast, I could walk the streets of downtown Vancouver late at night, often on my own, having come from a gig or club, without any fear of assault.

All murders in Vancouver were one drunk 'rubbie' stabbing his room mate over stolen ciggies. With the occasional highly specific serial killer, once every 5 years or so.

It is as if we scope around looking for threats, then ramp up their significance as a form of defense mechanism. I guess it is a logical survival strategy. But so much of it is life-diminishing old bolleaux.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

It could be down to more people coming forward to report sexual offences.

Yes, there is a greater complexity around those stats. It's very difficult to definitively say that the country is safer or less safe from sexual offenders. I have a guess, but being a man at much lower risk, i'm not the best person to comment.

What isn't in dispute is that the country is a safer place than it was 20 years ago.

I think, and I can't provide evidence for this, but I did see a documentary to this effect, that there is some evidence that the whole world is safer. So despite the horrors in Gaza and Ukraine, any given human is less likely to suffer a violent end than at any point than they have been at any point in history.

We don't see it like this, because the horrors which there are appear graphically on our phones almost instantly, whereas 20, 40, 60 years ago, we may have seen some grainy footage a week after, but the impact was dulled

I don't belittle deaths or violence anywhere and I long for these terrible conflicts to end, but I say this as something to help bring us collectively out of our gloom when we see another tragedy unfold

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I don't know Fergus, or if he's had other names, but I think there are plenty of people in our country who aren't particularly racist, who are concerned about the immigration levels in this country. That they think the media are lying to them, and that the politicians don't care, is a concern.

I think it's worth engaging with them as a whole. Just ignoring the millions who voted reform is not the solution IMO.

I agree with your sentiment and hope that this poster replies, thanking you for your insights, politeness and consideration, extending a virtual handshake for helping them re-educate themselves.

I'll pop back later to see how it's going

 

[Triggaaar]

I agree with your sentiment and hope that this poster replies, thanking you for your insights, politeness and consideration, extending a virtual handshake for helping them re-educate themselves.

I'll pop back later to see how it's going

Yeah I don't think that's likely, but I'd like to hear what he thinks are the real motives behind the attack in Stockport. What terrorist organisation was it?

Hopefully we can all put our views forward, and listen to what others have to say.

 

[abc]

I don’t think I quite agree with that. Isn’t traditional socialism generally against immigration because of the dangers of workers losing jobs etc. I don’t think it is as clear cut as right vs left. Not to say those rioting are not right wing, they are. I am just saying that some jezza lefties I know are very concerned about immigration.

I don’t think there is anything wrong with being anti immigration per se but it is how you express that opposition. There are ECONOMIC arguments for and against but when someone opposes any policy because of the colour of their skin, religion or ethnicity then that is entirely different.

There are people who come into the latter category on the left,right and probably centre too. There is no such thing as respectable racism or bigotry.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

For anyone else who wants a bit of help feeling better about human nature

Man who tackled Southport attacker says he wished he could have been ‘more Bruce Willis’

John Hayes, 63, who was almost killed by leg wound, says he felt upset he could not do more to prevent stabbings

www.theguardian.com

It's so easy to think you might put your life on the line if the moment ever came. I wonder if I would?

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I don’t think there is anything wrong with being anti immigration per se but it is how you express that opposition.

They've all very recently had the chance to express their view at the ballot box. There were parties running explicitly on an anti immigration message

 

[abc]

As you say, most people don’t resort to violence but that video demonstrates how inflammatory and insulting behaviour could. (There has only been one attempted murder afaia (by a Muslim against a Muslim-> Christian convert btw. ) Posting such video content onto an NSC thread where posters are largely condemning the racist riots is both irrelevant and deliberately pushing an anti-islamophobic agenda. Clearly intolerance and a lack of respect for the others religion is rife at Speakers corner but irl, it is a situation closely monitored and managed by the police.

It is not that ‘island of unfettered free speech’ at Speakers Corner that is responsible for the widespread mobilisation of riotous behaviour through online incitement:



Musk and owners of other social media platforms should be made criminally liable

I said days ago on this thread that Elon Musk opening up Twitter to extremist account users (including Trump, Tate and Robinson) is one of the major reasons why the far right have been able to use social media particularly X, to spread their hatred and influence. It is the fox in charge of the hen house to allow global social platform owners to moderate their own toxic content according to their political views.

Elon Musk and other social media platform owners should be made individually and corporately, criminally liable for the harmful content of their sites.

In environmental law, Corporate liability and individual liability has for years operated on the principle the ’the Polluter Pays’. If the captain of an oil tanker, drunk at the tiller, crashes and causes an enormous oil leak he will be individually liable for criminal negligence and his company will also be corporately liable for the clean up.

Elon Musk is one of the biggest ’Polluters’ of the internet through tolerating harmful and extremist content on social media that pollutes the minds of people accessing the site - he needs to ‘Pay’ both with corporate fines and with criminal sanctions against him personally.

He also needs to really really shut the fcuk up about politics and interfering in the British government’s handling of the riots - he’s a multi-billionaire demagogue with a hard right ideology who has too much power and no democratic accountability.

Superb post, spot on

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Here we go.....this oaf has just been sentenced to THREE YEARS. Good.

 

[Ⓩ-Ⓐ-Ⓜ-Ⓞ-Ⓡ-Ⓐ]

Just had an email from my kid's nursery advising that some families from more central parts of town should consider collecting before 6. Statement from the council attached.

Updated statement on the impact of racist violence in the city

We are aware of growing public concern following the recent criminal disorder seen across the country, the unverified reports circulating about potential activity in the city and unsolicited leaflets being shared in some areas.

I would like to reassure residents and visitors that the council is working closely with Sussex Police and other partners to identify any emerging concerns, and keep our residents, staff, community partners and businesses safe.

We recognise the impact this unrest is causing to the lives of many people and that we are not all experiencing it in the same way, disproportionately harming our Black, Migrant and Muslim communities.

Brighton & Hove will always be a place which prides itself on our inclusivity and being a place of sanctuary. Sussex Police will come down hard on anyone taking part in the type of disorder we have seen elsewhere in the country. Racism and violent thuggery have no place in our city.

We will update residents further on any impact this may have on our local services, but in the meantime, I would like to encourage people to keep an eye on information from Sussex Police, stay vigilant and report any concerns or instances of hate crime to them by calling either 101, or 999 in an emergency.

Councillor Bella Sankey
Leader of Brighton & Hove City Council

 

[abc]

They've all very recently had the chance to express their view at the ballot box. There were parties running explicitly on an anti immigration message

Precisely, though some of the rhetoric used by members of those parties no doubt contributed to the belief held by the rioters that they are ‘standing up for the country’