[Politics] Protests/rioting in lots of places

[Eric the meek]

So when you say that you will struggle to see what all the fuss is about unless it affects you directly, you weren't talking about you?

Do you have views on this subject?

Who were you referring to?

Good spot. Something doesn't quite add up.

 

[jcdenton08]

So Illegal refugees wasn't the right term?

those that are denied asylum are usually deported so it is unlikely to be them.

Who are the illegal immigrants you are referring to?

people usually call those claiming asylum illegal immigrants (although its not illegal to claim asylum from within a country - part of the language used to vilify them). I am unsure what the difference between these and the undocumented people you refer to. But neither of these groups are usually in the community as they are housed in hotels or centres while their claims are being processed.

Do you honestly not know this, or are you trying and failing at some kind of attempt to use weasel words?

There are 800k-1.2m undocumented migrants in the UK. These are different to accepted immigrants and documented asylum seekers. These are people who have either outstayed their visa, arrived undocumented (by truck, boat etc) and have no legal right to remain in the UK.

Who are the UK’s undocumented population?

jcwi.org.uk

 

[chickens]

Right, there’s a lot of the usual bullshit creeping into this thread, let’s deal with it issue by issue, and do feel free to write to your MP expressing these concerns, rather than say torching a hotel. These issues are complex, so will be essay length.

I’ll make each issue a separate post as and when I’ve got time, let’s start with housing.

1. Housing. The housing issue is not caused by immigration. The housing issue has been caused by a little publicised clause in the Right to Buy policy that prevented local authorities from replacing social housing stock that was sold via this policy with new social housing.

Successive governments have also permitted entire developments to be sold off-plan to international investors who have never set foot in the UK and just view us as cash cows to be milked.

Increasingly everybody has been forced to become reliant on the private sector, who have been permitted to charge what they want. The free market in action when 60% of those competing don’t want/need to live in the property, they just want another asset.

This can be easily fixed.

a) Prevent ownership of more than two residential properties by the same individual or company.

b) Prevent overseas ownership of UK property by non UK citizens.

c) Allow local authorities to build social housing directly.

Immigration is not the cause of the problems here, but when any resource is scarce scumbags will try to weaponise the issue to make scapegoats, don’t be thick enough to fall for it.

Implementing the above steps will see a sharp correction in house prices, which I would argue is a far better place to be for the long term, but will cause those who’ve only just stepped onto the ladder to experience sharp negative equity. There’s no route out of this without bursting the bubble.

 

[Peteinblack]

Don’t you call them an “ignorant woman” on a hot mic, and lose government for 14 years?

I'm sure that Labour's defeat in 2010 was due to other, more significant, factors than Gordon Brown calling a woman a 'bigot' live on air.

But then I understand that the Right like to over-simplify issues, and rely on emotive arguments, rather than evidence, facts or logic!

 

[Jim in the West]

[QUOTE="nevergoagain, post: 11236426, member: 3699]
3. Illegal migration is another thing altogether, we have a duty to take in our share of asylum seekers but not in this manner. Undocumented arrivals are a serious risk to this country. I don't agree that there is a desire to come to the UK because of family or language, why is it then nearly 90% of arrivals are adult males ?. For me, that they are coming from a "safe" country on a boat paying thousands for the privilege suggests that they are no longer asylum seekers but more economic migrants. Those that fail asylum we are then stuck with if they are from any other countries we have no return agreement with. The fear comes when these then go on to commit serious crimes a la Abdul Ezedi.
[/QUOTE]
If you wilfully ignore all the evidence to rebut pretty much everything you say, then it’s difficult to have a proper debate.
Do you know how unbelievably tough it is to travel from countries such as Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq etc, to the UK? Do you understand the particular risks that women face making that journey? Then to argue that someone fleeing persecution and war is an economic migrant is bizarre. And we DID have return agreements when we were in the EU, and could work in partnership with 27 other countries. Unfortunately that all got ripped up because of Brexit.

 

[Weststander]

Time for this guy again, in case anyone missed it.

Yep, I heard that live.

In a smaller way, many/most of us have people of other cultures or heritage in our lives one way or another. Without a single secret morsel of racism or disdain in our souls, instead a huge respect for their contribution to our nation, in my case also a protective feeling for them. As long as circa 85% or more of Brits feel the same, I still have huge hope.

How did the UK largely defeat racism the first time? Let’s be honest, it was endemic until at least the 80’s across all classes of white folk and all political classes.

By natural integration in communities, sport, music, people beginning to challenge racism by mates/family, new gens of kinder people, and robust enforcement of laws.

A ray of hope. I do think a huge new housing programme will really help many issues in the medium to long term. Plus we need to get unemployed white folk trained in skills and working.

 

[jcdenton08]

I'm sure that Labour's defeat in 2010 was due to other, more significant, factors than Gordon Brown calling a woman a 'bigot' live on air.

But then I understand that the Right like to over-simplify issues, and rely on emotive arguments, rather than evidence, facts or logic!

Other more significant factors, like immigration?

Voters: Immigration was too high under Labour | YouGov

78% of people - including three quarters of Labour voters - think the last Labour government admitted too many immigrants into Britain

yougov.co.uk

 

[nevergoagain]

Why is it that any simple question you don't like, and can't fault, must therefor have been written in a 'condescending' manner ? It's a simple question FFS.

But if you're going to totally ignore all evidence to the contrary 'I don't agree that there is a desire to come to the UK because of family or language' and instead just going to roll off your 'theories' then I don't think this 'discussion' is getting very far.

Probably condescending again

Your tone is permanently condescending, you just can't see it.

The quote you highlighted, I stand by, who in their right mind being in a safe country already would then risk life and limb and pay thousands for the privilege to get on a tiny inflatable boat and go across a dangerous sea because they speak a better language over there. To be honest there's very little point debating with you (or some of the other usual suspects) as there won't be proper discussions back, just sniping (and another emoji).

 

[rogersix]

Well I’m sure the rioters and locals aren’t particularly happy about Rochdale, Telford, Rotherham, Oldham and the rest where Muslim paedophile rings operate(d). And these are the ones which have been prosecuted.

white nonces matter as well you know

 

[jcdenton08]

white nonces matter as well you know

Covered in my original post.

 

[Weststander]

Why so defensive old man

@Herr Tubthumper is a good person with a heart! Not old btw.

 

[BadFish]

Do you honestly not know this, or are you trying and failing at some kind of attempt to use weasel words?

There are 800k-1.2m undocumented migrants in the UK. These are different to accepted immigrants and documented asylum seekers. These are people who have either outstayed their visa, arrived undocumented (by truck, boat etc) and have no legal right to remain in the UK.

Who are the UK’s undocumented population?

jcwi.org.uk

I am trying to figure out if you know what you are on about or if you used incorrect phrases like 'Illegal refugees" because you don't.

I think i am getting the picture, so could you link to the town or towns you were describing earlier and link to the numbers of Illegal refugee, asylum seekers undocumented persons and Illegal immigrants you mentioned. Then link to the rising crime rates, falling house prices and changin cultures of those towns?

 

[dwayne]

Well obviously dwayne, he's not as successful as you, but needs must

 

[WATFORD zero]

Do you honestly not know this, or are you trying and failing at some kind of attempt to use weasel words?

There are 800k-1.2m undocumented migrants in the UK. These are different to accepted immigrants and documented asylum seekers. These are people who have either outstayed their visa, arrived undocumented (by truck, boat etc) and have no legal right to remain in the UK.

Who are the UK’s undocumented population?

jcwi.org.uk

But aren't the largest number the people that you are referring to there those who arrived on visas and then outstayed them. The 1.2Million that you definitely weren't talking about earlier and not the 63,000 asylum immigrants that you were ?

I'm sorry but you're certainly confusing me

 

[Jim in the West]

Your tone is permanently condescending, you just can't see it.

The quote you highlighted, I stand by, who in their right mind being in a safe country already would then risk life and limb and pay thousands for the privilege to get on a tiny inflatable boat and go across a dangerous sea because they speak a better language over there. To be honest there's very little point debating with you (or some of the other usual suspects) as there won't be proper discussions back, just sniping (and another emoji).

So why do people risk death and pay people smugglers a small fortune to get to the UK?

 

[The Clamp]

So do I that's why I live in London. I take it you live somewhere multicultural and not in 90% white Sussex !?

Some cultures are more palatable though. Whitechapel is an absolute hole.

Just the Muslims you don’t like then?

 

[dwayne]

Because your tiresome?

You're.

 

[jcdenton08]

But aren't the largest number the people that you are referring to there those who arrived on visas and then outstayed them. The 1.2Million that you definitely weren't talking about earlier and not the 63,000 asylum immigrants that you were ?

I'm sorry but you're certainly confusing me

If they aren’t documented, they aren’t paying tax. They are doing jobs, usually cash in hand, often in “modern slavery” conditions, which is hurting the economy. Meanwhile, they are consuming public services such as a hugely strained NHS. No documentation, no NI number. No legal right to work, no tax.

 

[BevBHA]

A citizenship test for all present and future citizens - I knew we would eventually agree on something this disappointing morning

One that includes questions such as “what is the legal age of consent” that you can then hold people accountable to. I’ve seen the ‘I didn’t know the laws’ defence on too many occasions

 

[BadFish]

Yep, I heard that live.

In a smaller way, many/most of us have people of other cultures or heritage in our lives one way or another. Without a single secret morsel of racism or disdain in our souls, instead a huge respect for their contribution to our nation, in my case also a protective feeling for them. As long as circa 85% or more of Brits feel the same, I still have huge hope.

How did the UK largely defeat racism the first time? Let’s be honest, it was endemic until at least the 80’s across all classes of white folk and all political classes.

By natural integration in communities, sport, music, people beginning to challenge racism by mates/family, new gens of kinder people, and robust enforcement of laws.

A ray of hope. I do think a huge new housing programme will really help many issues in the medium to long term. Plus we need to get unemployed white folk trained in skills and working.

Absolutely right!

I said earlier that most of us are the same and somehow the spotlight needs to be turned to everyone just getting along rather than the outliers who can't/won't.

These people carrying on like twats aren't helping anything of course.