[Politics] Protests/rioting in lots of places

[jcdenton08]

Just for clarity, this post is definitely only about the 63,000 asylum immigrants and not the 1.2 Million who arrived on Government issued visas last year ? Thanks

If people have been granted a legal visa, work and contribute to British society then I don’t see any issues.

 

[Justice]

O

It isn't immigration, and it certainly isnt refugees that's making their lives shit, it's like blaming the rain for a damp patch on your bedroom ceiling, it's the f***ing roof that needs fixing, if we don't get any rain, the garden doesn't grow.
I understand there are some cultural problems, and in some places Muslim people don't mix well, but I can't blame them if they live around people like these rioters. I get that if an area becomes a Muslim dominant area, you might lose the local pub, the types of shops around you might change, and if its the town you grew up in it might be uncomfortable for you, but it isn't refugees in hostels that have done that, it's people that make migrants feel unsafe in a white majority area, as much as anything else.
Please don't stop thinking about this and think you already know what the problem is and how to fix it, it isn't so simple.
More of the problem is corporations that bung millions in donations to Political parties, to ensure they don't pay hundreds of millions in tax, or pay their CEO millions of pounds, and their workers the bare minimum, having staff on full time hours that the state still needs to provide benefits for, because their wage isn't enough to live on.
Tories have done this, all of it, the country finally shifts them out, and that's when it kicks off?
I am not middle class, I have had competition for work through immigration, but I have also worked abroad. My kids struggle with rents and to be able to put a deposit together for a mortgage, my family isn't living in the lap of luxury, and life is expensive, but it isn't the refugees, its the system as operated by the Tories since the financial crash, and before that the bankers that caused the crash, and before that, the governments that deregulated banking so they could take big risks, and the tax avoidance of big corporations and wealthy individuals.

We are a tiny island rammed with people, all the homes are gone and rents are sky high because of demand. It is an immigration issue and it’s to late to address it now the damage is done.

 

[dwayne]

The vast majority of refugees simply want to work hard for a better life. I'd take them over those causing all the trouble in the UK any day.

That's a lovely statement but do you know this is actual fact ?! You live in Germany dont you?

I welcome taking in asylum seeking refugees from war torn countries seeking a better life. But It does feel out of control. And we need to work on integration etc have you ever been to Whitechapel etc in recent years. It's a stinking pit that looks more like Baghdad with loads of women walking around in burqas.

I would love to see the reaction of the Brighton/hove luvvies if what has happened to some parts of east London, happened in the middle of Hove.

 

[WATFORD zero]

If people have been granted a legal visa, work and contribute to British society then I don’t see any issues.

So I am guessing you're a big advocate of this new plan to process asylum seekers as soon as possible, get rid of the backlog and associated costs, so they can work and contribute. A few 10s of thousands will be nothing added to the 1.2 Million

 

[WATFORD zero]

That's a lovely statement but do you know this is actual fact ?! You live in Germany dont you?

I welcome taking in asylum seeking refugees from war torn countries seeking a better life. But It does feel out of control. And we need to work on integration etc have you ever been to Whitechapel etc in recent years. It's a stinking pit that looks more like Baghdad with loads of women walking around in burqas.

I would love to see the reaction of the Brighton/hove luvvies if what has happened to some parts of east London, happened in the middle of Hove.

So the 63,000 is out of control but the 1.2 Million isn't ? (My son actually lives in Whitechapel, so I visit regularly )

 

[A1X]

There’s numerous issues at play here. Please read the whole post and don’t cherry pick the bits you don’t like, if you’re going to reply. This post is being made as a whole with each paragraph relating to the previous one.

There are the very real concerns residents of some towns have about very large numbers of asylum seekers and illegal refugees arriving in their towns. Families in some areas who have lived their whole lives for generations have seen crime rates rise, property prices fall and cultural change which - let’s face - isn’t always for the better. For example, many Muslim men who have arrived from countries where women and girls are second class citizens don’t just turn up on British shores and immediately adapt to our cultural values, after a lifetime of very different behaviour.

Examples of this include the repeated and ongoing criminal cases against predominantly Muslim immigrants who have targeted, groomed, drugged and raped underage white girls. These are uncomfortable truths.

Of course, despite the above, reports estimate 85-92% of perpetrators of such crime are white.

Then, quite separate to the above points, there are right-wing openly racist thugs who are taking the opportunity to behave like louts - looting, assaulting innocent legal migrants, and generally acting like fascist scum.

The problem is, and we’ve seen it in this thread and will forevermore, most people aren’t wired in the brain to see nuance on such an emotionally charged subject.

Liberals and anti-fascists will ignore people with legitimate concerns and grievances - people who aren’t smashing up mosques, setting fire to police cars and looting Sports Direct. But they all get swept in together as “Nazis”.

Then the actual Nazis become emboldened and commit the crimes we are seeing. There are absolutely no winners here.

Government needs to punish rioters in the strictest possible terms, and actually listen to normal working people’s concerns.

So what is the mechanism for telling those who believe they have “legitimate concerns” that, actually (and as you’ve demonstrated in your post elsewhere) their concerns actually aren’t “legitimate” at all?

Or is the expectation that we do what they want anyway, even if they’re wrong?

 

[BadFish]

That's a lovely statement but do you know this is actual fact ?! You live in Germany dont you?

I welcome taking in asylum seeking refugees from war torn countries seeking a better life. But It does feel out of control. And we need to work on integration etc have you ever been to Whitechapel etc in recent years. It's a stinking pit that looks more like Baghdad with loads of women walking around in burqas.

I would love to see the reaction of the Brighton/hove luvvies if what has happened to some parts of east London, happened in the middle of Hove.

That's a lovely statement but do you know this is actual fact ?! You live in Germany dont you?

I welcome taking in asylum seeking refugees from war torn countries seeking a better life. But It does feel out of control. And we need to work on integration etc have you ever been to Whitechapel etc in recent years. It's a stinking pit that looks more like Baghdad with loads of women walking around in burqas.

I would love to see the reaction of the Brighton/hove luvvies if what has happened to some parts of east London, happened in the middle of Hove.

How do you know that those burqua wearing women are 'asylum seeking refugees (sic)' rather than people born in the UK or other immigrants?

 

[jcdenton08]

So what is the mechanism for telling those who believe they have “legitimate concerns” that, actually (and as you’ve demonstrated in your post elsewhere) their concerns actually aren’t “legitimate” at all?

Don’t you call them an “ignorant woman” on a hot mic, and lose government for 14 years?

 

[The Clamp]

That's a lovely statement but do you know this is actual fact ?! You live in Germany dont you?

I welcome taking in asylum seeking refugees from war torn countries seeking a better life. But It does feel out of control. And we need to work on integration etc have you ever been to Whitechapel etc in recent years. It's a stinking pit that looks more like Baghdad with loads of women walking around in burqas.

I would love to see the reaction of the Brighton/hove luvvies if what has happened to some parts of east London, happened in the middle of Hove.

I prefer diversity to integration. I like colour, culture and variety.

Going through a London market or sitting in a cafe hearing the chatter and accents of all different nations is a joy.

Seeing all types of clothing and hairstyles. Eating all kinds of food and drink.

I’ll take that over a sea of buttoned down white folk silently commuting around London with their repressed grimaces and their “P’s and Q’s” any day of the week.

Viva La difference!!

 

[HeaviestTed]

I didn't read it all so will only respond to the bit I have read.

Your first paragraph makes a number of claims about asylum seekers, house prices and crime rates. None of these claims are substantiated with evidence and your towns are not named.

In Copthorne near Crawley the two main hotels are being used to house asylum seekers and as such they have lost two local resources that were vital to the community, one hotel had a pub and regularly held events that many locals went to, the other hotel held a fairly regular boxing night attracting people from all over the south east, this has all stopped completely.

I’ve personally witnessed asylum seekers following school girls and making them feel uncomfortable by making comments in their own languages and taking photos of them. The seekers are bored, they aren’t allowed to work and have no money to do anything interesting.

The problem is with the amount of people on the waiting list and this thing where hotels are used to house asylum seekers. Labour said they are going to speed up processing and cut down on hotel usage which I hope will return the hotels to the local community and stop this thing where there are lots and lots of asylum seekers in one area with nothing to do.

 

[A1X]

Don’t you call them an “ignorant woman” on a hot mic, and lose government for 14 years?

So I take it from your glib response you don’t actually have an answer to my genuine question?

 

[jcdenton08]

So I am guessing you're a big advocate of this new plan to process asylum seekers as soon as possible, get rid of the backlog and associated costs, so they can work and contribute. A few 10s of thousands will be nothing added to the 1.2 Million

Oh, I was saying no issues within law.

 

[Justice]

It's easy to blame the bloke that got your job, but it wasn't him that sacked you. Start looking up instead of down.

I haven’t been sacked and luckily the only person that can do that is me

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

There’s numerous issues at play here. Please read the whole post and don’t cherry pick the bits you don’t like, if you’re going to reply. This post is being made as a whole with each paragraph relating to the previous one.

There are the very real concerns residents of some towns have about very large numbers of asylum seekers and illegal refugees arriving in their towns. Families in some areas who have lived their whole lives for generations have seen crime rates rise, property prices fall and cultural change which - let’s face - isn’t always for the better. For example, many Muslim men who have arrived from countries where women and girls are second class citizens don’t just turn up on British shores and immediately adapt to our cultural values, after a lifetime of very different behaviour.

Examples of this include the repeated and ongoing criminal cases against predominantly Muslim immigrants who have targeted, groomed, drugged and raped underage white girls. These are uncomfortable truths.

Of course, despite the above, reports estimate 85-92% of perpetrators of such crime are white.

Then, quite separate to the above points, there are right-wing openly racist thugs who are taking the opportunity to behave like louts - looting, assaulting innocent legal migrants, and generally acting like fascist scum.

The problem is, and we’ve seen it in this thread and will forevermore, most people aren’t wired in the brain to see nuance on such an emotionally charged subject.

Liberals and anti-fascists will ignore people with legitimate concerns and grievances - people who aren’t smashing up mosques, setting fire to police cars and looting Sports Direct. But they all get swept in together as “Nazis”.

Then the actual Nazis become emboldened and commit the crimes we are seeing. There are absolutely no winners here.

Government needs to punish rioters in the strictest possible terms, and actually listen to normal working people’s concerns.

Please name these places and show evidence that home owner's are losing value on their properties.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

There’s numerous issues at play here. Please read the whole post and don’t cherry pick the bits you don’t like, if you’re going to reply. This post is being made as a whole with each paragraph relating to the previous one.

There are the very real concerns residents of some towns have about very large numbers of asylum seekers and illegal refugees arriving in their towns. Families in some areas who have lived their whole lives for generations have seen crime rates rise, property prices fall and cultural change which - let’s face - isn’t always for the better. For example, many Muslim men who have arrived from countries where women and girls are second class citizens don’t just turn up on British shores and immediately adapt to our cultural values, after a lifetime of very different behaviour.

Examples of this include the repeated and ongoing criminal cases against predominantly Muslim immigrants who have targeted, groomed, drugged and raped underage white girls. These are uncomfortable truths.

Of course, despite the above, reports estimate 85-92% of perpetrators of such crime are white.

Then, quite separate to the above points, there are right-wing openly racist thugs who are taking the opportunity to behave like louts - looting, assaulting innocent legal migrants, and generally acting like fascist scum.

The problem is, and we’ve seen it in this thread and will forevermore, most people aren’t wired in the brain to see nuance on such an emotionally charged subject.

Liberals and anti-fascists will ignore people with legitimate concerns and grievances - people who aren’t smashing up mosques, setting fire to police cars and looting Sports Direct. But they all get swept in together as “Nazis”.

Then the actual Nazis become emboldened and commit the crimes we are seeing. There are absolutely no winners here.

Government needs to punish rioters in the strictest possible terms, and actually listen to normal working people’s concerns.

"actually listen to normal working people’s concerns."

I did listen. I spent some of the weekend listening to their concerns....I have posted about it on here. But if they want to be heard any more they are going to have to make a far better case than they have made to date. The usual cycle of the interview is they will make a statement about some sort of values being eroded, then when pressed about this give absolutely no meaningful explanation or any real evidence. You cant just keep walking around with a St Georges flag saying British values, family values and expect anyone to take you seriously. A few Facebook likes from your friends does not validate you.

 

[BadFish]

I prefer diversity to integration. I like colour, culture and variety.

Going through a London market or sitting in a cafe hearing the chatter and accents of all different nations is a joy.

Seeing all types of clothing and hairstyles. Eating all kinds of food and drink.

I’ll take that over a sea of buttoned down white folk silently commuting around London with their repressed grimaces and their “P’s and Q’s” any day of the week.

Viva La difference!!

Time for this guy again, in case anyone missed it.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

There’s numerous issues at play here. Please read the whole post and don’t cherry pick the bits you don’t like, if you’re going to reply. This post is being made as a whole with each paragraph relating to the previous one.

There are the very real concerns residents of some towns have about very large numbers of asylum seekers and illegal refugees arriving in their towns. Families in some areas who have lived their whole lives for generations have seen crime rates rise, property prices fall and cultural change which - let’s face - isn’t always for the better. For example, many Muslim men who have arrived from countries where women and girls are second class citizens don’t just turn up on British shores and immediately adapt to our cultural values, after a lifetime of very different behaviour.

Examples of this include the repeated and ongoing criminal cases against predominantly Muslim immigrants who have targeted, groomed, drugged and raped underage white girls. These are uncomfortable truths.

Of course, despite the above, reports estimate 85-92% of perpetrators of such crime are white.

Then, quite separate to the above points, there are right-wing openly racist thugs who are taking the opportunity to behave like louts - looting, assaulting innocent legal migrants, and generally acting like fascist scum.

The problem is, and we’ve seen it in this thread and will forevermore, most people aren’t wired in the brain to see nuance on such an emotionally charged subject.

Liberals and anti-fascists will ignore people with legitimate concerns and grievances - people who aren’t smashing up mosques, setting fire to police cars and looting Sports Direct. But they all get swept in together as “Nazis”.

Then the actual Nazis become emboldened and commit the crimes we are seeing. There are absolutely no winners here.

Government needs to punish rioters in the strictest possible terms, and actually listen to normal working people’s concerns.

What are these concerns?

They come over here and go on the dole
They come over here and take our jobs
They move next door and I can't sell my house
Your kids aren't safe to go out
The British way of life is being destroyed

Setting this nonsense aside what are the real and genuine concerns?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

"actually listen to normal working people’s concerns."

I did listen. I spent some of the weekend listening to their concerns....I have posted about it on here. But if they want to be heard any more they are going to have to make a far better case than they have made to date. The usual cycle of the interview is they will make a statement about some sort of values being eroded, then when pressed about this give absolutely no meaningful explanation or any real evidence. You cant just keep walking around with a St Georges flag saying British values, family values and expect anyone to take you seriously. A few Facebook likes from your friends does not validate you.

This.

 

[jcdenton08]

So I take it from your glib response you don’t actually have an answer to my genuine question?

Was my answer not absolutely superb?

In 2010, and directly off the back of comments such as Gordon Brown’s, led to UKIP receiving 13% of the popular vote. These near 4m people aren’t out en masse burning down mosques.

Their “mechanism” is to vote for a party they feel - rightly or wrongly - are listening to them.

Hence a repeat with Reform gaining 14% of the vote share, and over 4m votes in 2024.

 

[nevergoagain]

Just for clarity, this post is definitely only about the 63,000 asylum immigrants and not the 1.2 Million who arrived on Government issued visas last year ? Thanks

Same condescending tone as always.

For me there are 2 issues here or 3 really.

1. There is no justification whatsoever for the troubles we saw over the weekend. I hope those idiots get what's coming to them, I can't believe some of the images of people looting with faces clearly on pictures and they don't think they will get caught. Perhaps they just don't fear the consequences.
2. Legal migration, I don't think any right thinking person has a problem with people coming to the country to settle, work and contribute with the funds to support themselves and fit into their new country. We absolutely have a skills gap that needs to be addressed. This can't though be open ended as we just don't have the services to support an unending number. Schools, GP's, Dentists.
3. Illegal migration is another thing altogether, we have a duty to take in our share of asylum seekers but not in this manner. Undocumented arrivals are a serious risk to this country. I don't agree that there is a desire to come to the UK because of family or language, why is it then nearly 90% of arrivals are adult males ?. For me, that they are coming from a "safe" country on a boat paying thousands for the privilege suggests that they are no longer asylum seekers but more economic migrants. Those that fail asylum we are then stuck with if they are from any other countries we have no return agreement with. The fear comes when these then go on to commit serious crimes a la Abdul Ezedi.