[Politics] Protests/rioting in lots of places

[Herr Tubthumper]

I’ve been taken aback by the huge numbers of oafs. Ten years ago these clashes might be 150 vs 150 ANTIFA chucking stones at each other in Dover, kettled by the police. A different world from this neck of the woods.

Starmer/Cooper said no more legislation is required. I wonder.

I guess we will see very shortly if further legislation is needed.

Actual Legislation aside, Starmer was heavily involved in 2011 riots and said they will utilise the same processes and procedures to enact swift justice …there was 24 hour courts then.

 

[crookie]

We have so much land that is not used for agriculture and could be built on if only we were willing and building companies didn’t sit of massive land banks. There are also a few issues. Lack of skilled labour to build what we need because we got rid of the European types.

There is also a huge issue with empty homes. Second home ownership is ridiculous. They could massively ramp up capital gains on houses and then suddenly it is not in the rich multi property owning people’s interest to prevent house price drops. Where my mum lives in Devon there are villages that are basically empty all winter due to second home ownership. It is crazy.

Providing a few family services could also help keep families together which would reduce the demand for houses.

I would love to hear a proposal on how the health and care sectors would work if we stopped recruiting immigrants. At the care home where my wife’s grandad died a couple of months ago there were only two members of staff I came across who were British. 10-12 from overseas. They do jobs we don’t want to.

Totally agree re 2nd home ownership. Air BNB terrible for areas that tourists want to visit. Needs some imagination for politicians to address that.

Concerning care workers, it's a really difficult area. Bring immigrants in to do a minimum wage job, they'll never be able to pay market rent for properties in most of the country, so will receive housing benefit and therefore pay nothing positive in taxes. Economically madness, but how do you get natives to do the job for the same shit money ? Conundrum

 

[ManOfSussex]

The eco warriors got 5 years recently. I'm rubbing my hands with anticipation.

As my 83 year old Dad said to me yesterday - If those Just Stop Oil protesters got 5 years these idiots should get 20.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Personally I wouldn’t even give the majority of rioters the credence of having a political ideology - or make the motivation relevant - the far right certainly is the initial cause online and they are involved in the ground but for the majority of rioters there this is pure unadulterated thuggery and gratuitous mob violence by people most of whom wouldn’t know the difference between one political ideology from another.

If I was going to label it - it would be ‘anarchy’ something that ironically is an anathema to fascism but I don’t want to legitimise it by giving it any kind of label.

That was my thinking too which is why I challenged it. .

Just watching the news, and the reporting is shit. "There is anger" says a reporter as the cameras films various white gammon laughing outside a hotel as more gammon smash windows.

Anger? Another gammon gets shouty as he's held back by the police. Like a small child gets angry when he's stopped from eating more cake.

What a witless bunch of lardy oafs. Entirely reminiscent of your football 'lads' doing the 'hold me back' dance. It's a a larf innit. Anger, my arse.

 

[crookie]

As my 83 year old Dad said to me yesterday - If those Just Stop Oil protesters got 5 years these idiots should get 20.

As i posted earlier, simply not enough prison places now, sadly, they could all do with a few weeks inside imho

 

[Berty23]

Totally agree re 2nd home ownership. Air BNB terrible for areas that tourists want to visit. Needs some imagination for politicians to address that.

Concerning care workers, it's a really difficult area. Bring immigrants in to do a minimum wage job, they'll never be able to pay market rent for properties in most of the country, so will receive housing benefit and therefore pay nothing positive in taxes. Economically madness, but how do you get natives to do the job for the same shit money ? Conundrum

With a declining workforce and boomer generation sitting on fortunes in house prices and good pensions we have a bit problem. It might not make economic sense to have the immigration but the alternative is to let people die. Or of course we could follow the example of many Asian families and look after our old family members ourselves!

 

[Weststander]

I said at BREXIT that this would happen. I hasten to add that this is not because of BREXIT itself as a political concept though. It is because of a misguided rhetoric about identity and Britishness which has quickened and been fueled in various parts of society. I expected it.

The search, or claiming, of identity is for the weak minded and it follows, easily led. A person's identity exists in a different dimension that they create themselves. I'm English, okay, I'm from Sussex (I love that) but it's only integral to who I am by choice. It doesn't impede on my existence. For insecure people it is their goal. And that's why they fight for it.

As every day goes by I feel like I'm letting the 'English' bit go these days.

Not macro economically, I wonder societally what would’ve happened if Remain had narrowly won?

I’ve always a nagging feeling (before this last week) that although we would’ve been content, the people we see rioting today and their idols would’ve turned this violent at some stage. A powder keg. Although I had in mind more Jo Cox type events.

 

[Machiavelli]

We have so much land that is not used for agriculture and could be built on if only we were willing and building companies didn’t sit of massive land banks. There are also a few issues. Lack of skilled labour to build what we need because we got rid of the European types.

There is also a huge issue with empty homes. Second home ownership is ridiculous. They could massively ramp up capital gains on houses and then suddenly it is not in the rich multi property owning people’s interest to prevent house price drops. Where my mum lives in Devon there are villages that are basically empty all winter due to second home ownership. It is crazy.

Providing a few family services could also help keep families together which would reduce the demand for houses.

I would love to hear a proposal on how the health and care sectors would work if we stopped recruiting immigrants. At the care home where my wife’s grandad died a couple of months ago there were only two members of staff I came across who were British. 10-12 from overseas. They do jobs we don’t want to.

@crookie, pay close attention to this response

 

[Sussax]

I guess we will see very shortly if further legislation is needed.

Actual Legislation aside, Starmer was heavily involved in 2011 riots and said they will utilise the same processes and procedures to enact swift justice …there was 24 hour courts then.

At this point I wouldn’t be again a Nuremberg type trial for all these offenders. A mass trailing handing out the toughest possible sentences in full public view.

 

[Berty23]

As i posted earlier, simply not enough prison places now, sadly, they could all do with a few weeks inside imho

Yep. The Tories cause a real problem here. I guess they cold put loads on the bibby Stockholm?

 

[Winker]

If this carries on, the police will have more important things to deal with than football.

In fact it could become a tactic to protest/riot when high-profile football is going on, knowing the police are already going to be busy and may struggle even more to contain the protests/riots.

But hasn't football moved away from gratuitous violence now? I read somewhere today that the police were asking football clubs in these areas for their facial recognition records to try and identify the rioters. This automatically associates football with right-wing fanatics and also explains why I've been asked to remove my hat when entering the Amex, something I've always refuse to do on principle. This isn't communist China, yet.

 

[Machiavelli]

Personally I wouldn’t even give the majority of rioters the credence of having a political ideology - or make the motivation relevant - the far right certainly is the initial cause online and they are involved in the ground but for the majority of rioters there this is pure unadulterated thuggery and gratuitous mob violence by people most of whom wouldn’t know the difference between one political ideology from another.

If I was going to label it - it would be ‘anarchy’ something that ironically is an anathema to fascism but I don’t want to legitimise it by giving it any kind of label.

That was my thinking too which is why I challenged it. .

Fascism isn't a complex ideology with many core concepts. It's about national renewal and it's about violence. And this is precisely what we're seeing on the streets.

 

[Machiavelli]

Aren’t these basically terrorist incidents? Rioting mobs setting buildings on fire with people in them because of ideology, sounds exactly like a terrorist incident to me.

Please, no. The terrorism label has been over-used throughout this century, and this has nothing to do with terrorism. It is racially-motivated violence and, potentially, rioting (for which there are very severe penalties). There are also incidents of arson, attacking the police and, no doubt, many other incidents that already fall under the law book.

 

[Eeyore]

Not macro economically, I wonder societally what would’ve happened if Remain had narrowly won?

I’ve always a nagging feeling (before this last week) that although we would’ve been content, the people we see rioting today and their idols would’ve turned this violent at some stage. A powder keg. Although I had in mind more Jo Cox type events.

I don't think a lot would have changed really. I asked the opposite question 9 years ago..

2025, And England Is An Independent Country-Outside Of The European Union.

I was having this discussion earlier. Assuming a 'Yes' vote north of the border, and the 2017 vote on EU membership sees a withdrawal, as well as further erosion of the United Kingdom.... What sort of political and social changes would this bring ? And would it be what we really want ...

www.northstandchat.com

 

[Hugo Rune]

As i posted earlier, simply not enough prison places now, sadly, they could all do with a few weeks inside imho

Instead of paying us the £200m back, perhaps Rwanda have some room in their prisons?

 

[portlock seagull]

I said at BREXIT that this would happen. I hasten to add that this is not because of BREXIT itself as a political concept though. It is because of a misguided rhetoric about identity and Britishness which has quickened and been fueled in various parts of society. I expected it.

The search, or claiming, of identity is for the weak minded and it follows, easily led. A person's identity exists in a different dimension that they create themselves. I'm English, okay, I'm from Sussex (I love that) but it's only integral to who I am by choice. It doesn't impede on my existence. For insecure people it is their goal. And that's why they fight for it.

As every day goes by I feel like I'm letting the 'English' bit go these days.

It’s globalisation. But why are you letting your English identity ‘go’ because of some idiots? Aren’t you letting them win that way?

 

[Weststander]

But hasn't football moved away from gratuitous violence now? I read somewhere today that the police were asking football clubs in these areas for their facial recognition records to try and identify the rioters. This automatically associates football with right-wing fanatics and also explains why I've been asked to remove my hat when entering the Amex, something I've always refuse to do on principle. This isn't communist China, yet.

Only because of CCTV, bans and great policing.

If coked up supporters could seriously hurt folk in other cities on a matchday and get away with it, they would.

Police in big numbers are required to keep football safe.

 

[portlock seagull]

Aren’t these basically terrorist incidents? Rioting mobs setting buildings on fire with people in them because of ideology, sounds exactly like a terrorist incident to me.

This is mob opportunism, not some cunningly planned and plotted organisation with training camps etc. So, no it’s not terrorism anymore than football hooliganism is.

 

[Bry Nylon]

Only because of CCTV, bans and great policing.

If coked up supporters could seriously hurt folk in other cities on a matchday and get away with it, they would.

Police in big numbers are required to keep football safe.

Yup. If this carries on into next week then I can’t see clubs being granted authority to hold matches as the police will simply be required elsewhere or will be needing well-earned rest days.

I fully accept that football not taking place is the very least of issues at present and personally it wouldn’t bother me if matches are shelved whilst this is sorted out.

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

As i posted earlier, simply not enough prison places now, sadly, they could all do with a few weeks inside imho

I'm sure these people rioting also want to bring back the death sentence. Let's give it a go if they want it.