Proposed Drug Reclassifications

[Albion Dan]

From the bbc:

The drug classification system in the UK is not "fit for purpose" and should be scrapped, scientists have said.
They have drawn up an alternative system which they argue more accurately reflects the harm that drugs do.

The new ranking system places alcohol and tobacco in the upper half of the league table, ahead of cannabis and several Class A drugs such as ecstasy

Goes to show what a farce it is having E's as a class A.

 

[Nibble]

very surprised that alcohol is where it is. Know it is very bad for you but did not know it worse than smoking or solvents etc

 

[Napper]

makes a mockery that Ecstasy is class A when millions of people do it every weekend and rarely problems.

 

[Napper]

also , what the f*** is Khat ?

 

[Napper]

also , surely thats crack cocaine thats 2nd . Cocaine is not that bad surely

 

[tricky]

khat is that stimulant that african taxi drivers use to stay awake for days on end.

I'm not sure how they came by that table in the lancet as I must have missed it and am very surprised that heroin is so high on the list. I guess if they are mixing up addiction, physical and mental effects then that might explain the ranking.

People really don't get just how many people are in the mental health services directly because of alcohol and cannabis.

 

[tedebear]

As always with any of these charts, you need to investigate the basis for the collection of its data.

Problem is it is hard to quantify exactly what makes a drug harmful...Are these figures representing deaths from the particular drug? Or are the indiciating the amount of people addicted? Do they include people who are addicted and need surgical help (Alcoholics), do they include people who are in mental insitutions due to the effects of their chosen drug? Is alcohol so high on that chart as its widely available?

Its hard to see these charts and not question what it actually sayd....

 

[Albion Dan]

from BBC again:

The new system has been developed by a team led by Professor David Nutt, from the University of Bristol, and Professor Colin Blakemore, chief executive of the Medical Research Council.

It assesses drugs on the harm they do to the individual, to society and whether or not they induce dependence.

A panel of experts were asked to rate 20 different drugs on nine individual categories, which were combined to produce an overall estimate of harm.

In order to provide familiar benchmarks, five legal drugs, including tobacco and alcohol were included in the assessment. Alcohol was rated the fifth most dangerous substance, and tobacco ninth.

Heroin was rated as the most dangerous drug, followed by cocaine and barbiturates. Ecstasy, however, rated only 18th, while cannabis was 11th.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

I suppose it is only looking at the effects of long term, controlled use, Obviously some drugs can be more dangerous than others if used inappropriately (would you be happier to be flown by a pilot smoking a fag, or one on LSD or Ketamine?)

Also, the study is slightly flawed because I would argue that there are more people using alcohol than street methadone, so the effects are much more measurable over time...most street drug addicts don't make old bones.

Also not immediately apparent from the graph is the effect of multiple substance use, the average heroin addict will also likely use other substances alongside it, including excessive alcohol, so which one is the culprit?

 

[Billy the Fish]

That chart is bullshit. The only reason that Alcohol and tobacco cause more harm is because of the quantity that people take. Smokers tend to smoke every day, heavy drinkers drink every day, these are the people at risk, but the effects don't show up for a long time. If you do pills every day it doesn't take that long before they send you mental, I know two people who have done this. Any of those drugs taken in moderation will do you no harm. Smack is a bit different because it seems that it's impossible to be a casual user.

 

[chip]

That chart is bullshit. The only reason that Alcohol and tobacco cause more harm is because of the quantity that people take. Smokers tend to smoke every day, heavy drinkers drink every day, these are the people at risk, but the effects don't show up for a long time. If you do pills every day it doesn't take that long before they send you mental, I know two people who have done this. Any of those drugs taken in moderation will do you no harm. Smack is a bit different because it seems that it's impossible to be a casual user.

You should obviously be a government minister. This is a discussion paper supposed to promote debate (that is a large function of this edition of the Lancet). The categories of harm considered are physical, dependence and social. Its actualy a very holistic and systematic analysis of the impact of substances at many levels and address the problems caused by the current, over-simplistic classes. The chariman of the Medical Research Council is not known as a drug peddling liberal but wants to address this very serious misunderstanding in a logical, rational and quantatitive manner. You can read the full paper on-line at the lancet and even comment if you wish or write a counter for a future issue. The abstract is unequivocal though:

Drug misuse and abuse are major health problems. Harmful drugs are regulated according to classifi cation systems that
purport to relate to the harms and risks of each drug. However, the methodology and processes underlying classifi cation
systems are generally neither specifi ed nor transparent, which reduces confi dence in their accuracy and undermines
health education messages. We developed and explored the feasibility of the use of a nine-category matrix of harm, with
an expert delphic procedure, to assess the harms of a range of illicit drugs in an evidence-based fashion. We also included
fi ve legal drugs of misuse (alcohol, khat, solvents, alkyl nitrites, and tobacco) and one that has since been classifi ed
(ketamine) for reference. The process proved practicable, and yielded roughly similar scores and rankings of drug harm
when used by two separate groups of experts. The ranking of drugs produced by our assessment of harm diff ered from
those used by current regulatory systems. Our methodology off ers a systematic framework and process that could be
used by national and international regulatory bodies to assess the harm of current and future drugs of abuse.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

also , what the f*** is Khat ?

A mild stimulant which comes from a native African plant. You often see Somalians and Ethiopians using it. They chew the leaves to get a mild high.

It's completely legal in this country, but illegal in a lot of others- the US, France, Germany etc.

Bit of an acquired taste though, I'm told.




Mmmmm...

 

[Billy the Fish]

You should obviously be a government minister. This is a discussion paper supposed to promote debate (that is a large function of this edition of the Lancet). The categories of harm considered are physical, dependence and social. Its actualy a very holistic and systematic analysis of the impact of substances at many levels and address the problems caused by the current, over-simplistic classes. The chariman of the Medical Research Council is not known as a drug peddling liberal but wants to address this very serious misunderstanding in a logical, rational and quantatitive manner. You can read the full paper on-line at the lancet and even comment if you wish or write a counter for a future issue.

I've read that article about halfway through, and will finish it later tonight because I am genuinely interested. I have come to one glaringly obvious flaw in their findings though. The results of their tests are decided by Doctors, I dare say that none of them have actually tried any of these drugs, barring alcohol and tobacco. How can someone give an opinion on the physical effects of ecstacy if they've never taken it?

 

[maffew]

A mild stimulant which comes from a native African plant. You often see Somalians and Ethiopians using it. They chew the leaves to get a mild high.

It's completely legal in this country, but illegal in a lot of others- the US, France, Germany etc.

Bit of an acquired taste though, I'm told.




Mmmmm...

I dont think you chew the leaves, you scrape the bark off and chew that.

It tastes minging and makes your teeth feel funny. ok though

 

[beorhthelm]

I guess if they are mixing up addiction, physical and mental effects then that might explain the ranking.

most likly they made it up with nice biases and weightings to ensure the known really bad drugs (heroin, cocaine) stayed top, whilst elevating alcohol and tobacco to nasty level. Yeah, a couple of doses of ketamine or LSD has less harmfull effect than 3 pints of Guiness. ffs.

 

[n1 gull]

Drugs rock!

 

[Albion Dan]

I have come to one glaringly obvious flaw in their findings though. The results of their tests are decided by Doctors, I dare say that none of them have actually tried any of these drugs, barring alcohol and tobacco. How can someone give an opinion on the physical effects of ecstacy if they've never taken it?

What on earth drives you to that conclusion?

I know a couple of doctors and they are full on caners.

 

[Superphil]

Just say No!

 

[Notters]

That chart is bullshit. The only reason that Alcohol and tobacco cause more harm is because of the quantity that people take. Smokers tend to smoke every day, heavy drinkers drink every day, these are the people at risk, but the effects don't show up for a long time. If you do pills every day it doesn't take that long before they send you mental, I know two people who have done this. Any of those drugs taken in moderation will do you no harm. Smack is a bit different because it seems that it's impossible to be a casual user.

Most of the people I know that do them say the next few days are far too hard for you to want to do them again... and as for doctors not doing drugs

 

[Billy the Fish]

What on earth drives you to that conclusion?

I know a couple of doctors and they are full on caners.

I suppose it's the same in any profession, I know a couple of coppers who like their class A's. The majority however, will not be taking any drugs. You can't honestly try and say that any of the people who wrote this report are out caining it every weekend. Going on my own experiences, that chart is wrong.