Prevent Donald Trump from making a state visit to the United Kingdom - petition

[Tyrone Biggums]

What did any of your post have to do with anything? What point were you trying to make about Americans voting in their own election?

Well it had nothing to do with you as it wasn't in response to anything you had stated.

It's a wonderful figure to point out as to why the Electoral College is a superior system for the US to represent all Americans views rather than a popular vote system.

 

[TWOCHOICEStom]

Online polls do nothing at all.

You've got Trump and his people making fast, uninformed decisions about topics they know nothing about. They have zero experience in government. All these two ****tards know how to do is promote themselves and their ideas.

This is a typical example I think. I don't truly believe they've done this to protect America. It's all PR. "Here voters, we did what we promised! You can trust us!". It's all just for show. They're stoking the "us vs. the system" fire which the right needs. They WANT people to be divided.

 

[Half Time Pies]

16 Muslim countries ban Israelis - where's the outrage?

Totally different situation, this is a complex issue where many of these states are actually deemed as enemies of the state by Israel and Israeli citizens are by law actually banned from visiting them in any case.

 

[lawros left foot]

What does my nationality have to do with anything?

Oh the irony

 

[The Birdman]

We are Democarcy let him come and we can protest altogether peacefully.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

The thing is.. forget the whole right/left thing for a minute.

You've got Trump and his people making fast, uninformed decisions about topics they know nothing about. They have zero experience in government. All these two ****tards know how to do is promote themselves and their ideas.

This is a typical example I think. I don't truly believe they've done this to protect America. It's all PR. "Here voters, we did what we promised! You can trust us!". It's all just for show. They're stoking the "us vs. the system" fire which the right needs. They WANT people to be divided.

Define informed. Was Obama informed when he started this whole shit storm by getting involved in Syria? Or was he another uninformed arse clown like Trump?

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Totally different situation, this is a complex issue where many of these states are actually deemed as enemies of the state by Israel and Israeli citizens are by law actually banned from visiting them in any case.

These states, well some of them, have the expressed desire to wipe Israel from the map. There are many less Jews in the world than Muslims yet few of the shrill voices in the left in the UK are protesting about Israel's international treatment. In fact the Labour party has been proved to tolerate anti semitism.

And as for Trump's policy, I happen to think it's an ineffective and daft idea as well.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Oh the irony

You better explain it then.

 

[Half Time Pies]

These states, well some of them, have the expressed desire to wipe Israel from the map. There are many less Jews in the world than Muslims yet few of the shrill voices in the left in the UK are protesting about Israel's international treatment. In fact the Labour party has been proved to tolerate anti semitism.

And as for Trump's policy, I happen to think it's an ineffective and daft idea as well.

I am not going to start debating the Arab-Israeli issue which is complex and has had its own thread in the past I was simply pointing out that they are entirely different situations and its ridiculous to compare them.

 

[highflyer]

I haven't read the whole thread, but can pretty much imagine how the the discussion is panning out amongst a small number of the usual suspects on both sides (myself included).

It's all too easy to dismiss these petitions/protest etc as pointless. In reality though it is clear that Trump and his staff have been rattled by the response in the US and around the world. He will hear about this petition (which is carefully and cleverly worded) and will be upset by it. So that is good and I am happy to be part of it.

There are so many things wrong with Trump and what he is done in my eyes. It is not just about what he is building, but what he is destroying in the process. That doesn't mean I think every other regime is perfect. But Trump heads up the largest single economy, the most powerful military machine and, most importantly, lays claim to being the 'leader of the free world'. And yet he is deliberatly creating division and stirring up forces that he will struggle to control. And our Prime Minister is cosying up and talking loudly about 'shared values'. So I do think it is my business to say something about his actions and about our governments choices in how they react. Angela Mekel is showing how it should be done.

Trump, and what he represents, is not normal. That is apparent already to most of us, yet our government, in their desperation, are making the stupid mistake of thinking they can 'manage' him.

Rather encouragingly I believe that the response to Trump will grow globally and will provide the basis for a genuine, alternative politics that is not based in hatred, bigotry, suspicion, nationalism and, most of all, hypocrisy. France is already looking interesting.

 

[TWOCHOICEStom]

Define informed. Was Obama informed when he started this whole shit storm by getting involved in Syria? Or was he another uninformed arse clown like Trump?

Why is every criticism of Trump justified with something bad about Obama?

The whole presidential system puts far too much power into the hands of too few if you ask me. Executive orders being made like this are pretty scary when you consider how few channels Trump/Bannon had to go through to make them law.

I just wish the Republicans and the Democrats could come up with two better candidates.




Also, I edited my post to remove the "forget the whole right/left thing" because I massively contradicted myself in the last paragraph...

 

[Lower West Stander]

Homeland Security is one of the most unpleasant organisations I have ever come across. Even before Trump did this, they reflected the nasty jingoistic underbelly of the US's attitude to the outside world.

There is the inherent assumption amongst " idiot America" that anyone who does not carry a US passport or not born there is a threat to the land of the free and the home of the grave.

Trump just sums this attitude up perfectly.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I am not going to start debating the Arab-Israeli issue which is complex and has had its own thread in the past I was simply pointing out that they are entirely different situations and its ridiculous to compare them.

No matter what the situation, the fact remains that a whole nation is banned from 16 countries due to their passport.

 

[BLOCK F]

Not really a lover of populist petitions, and I really can't see the point of trying to ban this visit by Trump. State or not.
Let him come over, meet the Queen for afternoon tea and a banquet, address Parliament, discuss with politicians the myriad of topics that our two nations need to discuss, see the protesters( peaceful, I hope!) etc.etc.
Banning him is a little bit like the bans that are occuring in our unis. Don't allow anyone to come and speak unless we agree with what they are going to say.
Let us grow up and get on with it.In general, how do you constructively influence events by banning, visits, meetings and discussions.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Why is every criticism of Trump justified with something bad about Obama?

Because all these anti-trump voices were silent when Obama and his administration were doing bad things.

Trump happened because of Obama and his actions. It's hard to side with anyone who is crying over Trump now when they venerate a man like Obama just because he made good sound bites and social media clips.

The whole presidential system puts far too much power into the hands of too few if you ask me. Executive orders being made like this are pretty scary when you consider how few channels Trump/Bannon had to go through to make them law.

I just wish the Republicans and the Democrats could come up with two better candidates.


Also, I edited my post to remove the "forget the whole right/left thing" because I massively contradicted myself in the last paragraph...

The greatest problem is their hold over allowing other parties outside of the two major parties to have any say or influence on anything.

Even to get a place at a Presidential debate a third party needs to get 15% voting in polls. That makes it almost impossible to allow other voices to be heard on a large stage.

In democracies like the UK and Australia we at least allow for countless different parties and views to be put to the people at election times to judge them by the public.

Until that changes, nothing will change.

When was the last time the US had a decent President? Reagan? It's been a hell of a long time unfortunately.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

16 Muslim countries ban Israelis - where's the outrage?

Countries ban citizens of a terrorist, international law breaking state - why should there be outrage ?

 

[neilbard]

Countries ban citizens of a terrorist, international law breaking state - why should there be outrage ?

That is what America is trying to do? Why should there be outrage?

 

[Biscuit Barrel]

Can't remember the same response when the Chinese leader came a couple of years ago. Their record on human rights is far worse than Trump.

What is this obsession with petitions? Can I sign one to ban petitions? Such a lazy way to express your view.

Trump bans people from visiting America and you want to respond by banning him from coming here. Grow up and use diplomacy.

 

[daveybgtt]

You need to be a special type of sad brain to sign an online petition, I bet Trump is extremely worried by the power of THE INTERNET!!!!!1111!!

 

[BBassic]

Why is every criticism of Trump justified with something bad about Obama?

The whole presidential system puts far too much power into the hands of too few if you ask me. Executive orders being made like this are pretty scary when you consider how few channels Trump/Bannon had to go through to make them law.

I just wish the Republicans and the Democrats could come up with two better candidates.




Also, I edited my post to remove the "forget the whole right/left thing" because I massively contradicted myself in the last paragraph...

That's just how politics discourse works.

"Government B has royally messed up Institution A"
"Yeah, well Government B inherited that situation from Government C so it's their fault really"

PMQ's is a brilliant example. No answers just a load of finger pointing and willy waving.