[Albion] Potter’s Greatest Flaw

[Swansman]

I'm now wondering how all his draws at Swansea manifested themselves?

It's hard not to think this is GPotts achilles heel, we've seen it so many times how far can it be traced back?

All his draws... there were 17 teams in the Championship that had more draws so if you are implying that there was a lot, there wasnt.

I saw pretty much all of them and just like at Brighton they were different in nature. Some were dead even, some had Swansea dominating the games and in some cases the opponents dominated the games. They reminded a lot about 90% of the football teams out there in that regard.

 

[Icy Gull]

I think the main reason these games are more difficult is that we need to take initiative and not having a top striker/s makes that difficult so when teams sit back we can’t break them down. Potter can only work with what he’s got, the lack of top forwards is really exposed in these type of games.

Spot on but that’s not going to stop those that were moaning about him last season coming back with “as I was saying” after a couple of below par results recently.

It doesn’t take much to reignite the negativity

We are Brighton with a bottom six budget for FFS just what do some fans expect?

 

[Swansman]

Spot on but that’s not going to stop those that were moaning about him last season coming back with “as I was saying” after a couple of below par results recently.

It doesn’t take much to reignite the negativity

We are Brighton with a bottom six budget for FFS just what do some fans expect?

Yup. Early Christmas gift for people like GB, Stat Brother and the likes.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Most of those who think he is a great coach is also those who are realistic humans (unlike you and others who cant handle a disappointing result without pulling the pitch forks), knowing that Brighton wont always win and that there is a lot of reasons for that - the main one being the quality of footballers. This season Newcastle lost against West Ham, Aston Villa, Wolves, Tottenham and Chelsea. What these teams have in common - maybe with the exception of Wolves & Villa - is that they have better footballers than Brighton. This season Newcastle drew against Southampton, Leeds, Watford, Crystal Palace and Brighton. What these have in common is a similar level of players.

Football is played on the football pitch, not on the tactical board.

That's so contradictory I barely know where to start, but let's pick up two points immediately.

1) Brighton and Hove Albion have better players than Newcastle. Without a doubt. Only Wilson and St Maximin would get in our starting team and we wouldn't want ASM because he doesn't track back (but how I'd love Wilson here). That's the whole reason they're in trouble.

2) Liverpool and Man City DO have far better players than us in every position. So when we draw or win against them Potter rightly gets lauded for his tactics, substitutions and motivations in those games. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Swansman]

That's so contradictory I barely know where to start, but let's pick up two points immediately.

1) Brighton and Hove Albion have better players than Newcastle. Without a doubt. Only Wilson and St Maximin would get in our starting team and we wouldn't want ASM because he doesn't track back (but how I'd love Wilson here). That's the whole reason they're in trouble.

2) Liverpool and Man City DO have far better players than us in every position. So when we draw or win against them Potter rightly gets lauded for his tactics, substitutions and motivations in those games. You can't have it both ways.

1. Yes Brighton have a bit better players than they have so if the teams play eachother 10 times Brighton would likely get more points.

2. Yes Brighton have a bit worse players than those teams so if the teams play eachother 10 times they would likely get more points than Brighton.

Does any of that have a lot to do with the manager? Not really, no. Managers play a part but their importance is limited.

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

just watched the full replay , we had numerous , decent chances that were saved or missed .......one of those days , i think newcastle rallied after the penalty and again after they scored , a few of our players were way off the mark today , bad day at the office with them having their new manager watching from the stands ......2 points dropped and an all round bad day at the office.

Trouble is, we did the same against Norwich (and even made them look half decent). We're definitely blowing a bit hot and cold this season.

 

[b.w.2.]

The OP has called this one right. There are teams we should beat - because we've got a better team. There are teams Citeh should beat - and they do 9 times out of 10; there are teams we hould beat - unfortunately we only manage about 3 or 4 out of those 10.

....... and this isn't all about us not getting a striker - 'any striker' - in. Fed up with all that bolleaux.

Shirley, a better quality striker would make a difference. Are you just fed up with the truth? Glen would have had at least 2 yesterday


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[Guinness Boy]

Shirley, a better quality striker would make a difference. Are you just fed up with the truth? Glen would have had at least 2 yesterday


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Glenn wouldn't have been picked yesterday.

 

[Machiavelli]

Pep Guardiolas Man City lost to Palace a week or two ago. Might not be ready for a big club.

About "teams we should beat" there is a collision of reality and fantasy:
The reality is that there are no such teams. There are no teams like that, not for Manchester City and certainly not for Brighton.

Obviously, the record against bottom teams involves Grahams tactics and choices. He makes mistakes. And when the team plays well, its also partly because of him. But the players on the pitch is, in success and failure, always the most important part in determining the outcome of a game. There is an almost frightening correlation between wages and where you end up in the league. Because player quality is the number one determining factor - and while we are saying "this and this guy, look how great they are" others are saying "look at the nice results GP is getting with such a shit squad". The truth is somewhere in between. Its a decent team with decent players and could overachieve compared to wage budget, but there are no "should" beat teams.

Well, I agree with [MENTION=2349]Skaville[/MENTION] on everything apart from one point (I don't think that this will prevent bigger clubs giving GP offers).
But it's a problem for us if we want to rise up the table. Strange analogy for you to draw a comparison with Pep at Palace. That was a one-off, whereas our recent record against teams in the relegation zone is dreadful (I can dig out a stat if you want to dispute that claim). I think we should have played better against Newcastle (something you seem to accept given your player ratings), ditto against Norwich. Ditto against those in the bottom three last season. It's becoming a bit of a pattern, and that can't be solely down to the players, the coaching staff would want to take some responsibility for it too.

 

[b.w.2.]

Glenn wouldn't have been picked yesterday.

He would in his pomp


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[Swansman]

Well, I agree with [MENTION=2349]Skaville[/MENTION] on everything apart from one point (I don't think that this will prevent bigger clubs giving GP offers).
But it's a problem for us if we want to rise up the table. Strange analogy for you to draw a comparison with Pep at Palace. That was a one-off, whereas our recent record against teams in the relegation zone is dreadful (I can dig out a stat if you want to dispute that claim). I think we should have played better against Newcastle (something you seem to accept given your player ratings), ditto against Norwich. Ditto against those in the bottom three last season. It's becoming a bit of a pattern, and that can't be solely down to the players, the coaching staff would want to take some responsibility for it too.

Hence the sentence "Obviously, the record against bottom teams involves Grahams tactics and choices". Nothing is solely down to the players, they are just the most important component.

Brighton got a bottom five squad when it comes to attacking players making it difficult to beat teams that focus primarly on defending.

 

[Guinness Boy]

He would in his pomp


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Whoosh.

I mean Potter didn’t pick a centre forward to start the game.


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[Barnet Seagull]

Weird narrative here. Newcastle sat first half. This is what we struggled against maybe 12-18 months ago. We battered them and led 1-0.

When they pressed us, which is what the top teams do, we struggled.

Yesterday wasnt a tactical issue, it was a performance issue.

 

[Jeremiah]

I don't know if its a flaw but surely a strange decision to leave your leading goalscorer on the bench against the bottom club at home who are winless. Even stranger when you consider Maupay has a great scoring record against them.

Sometimes Potter tries to be too clever IMO

We also need someone who can actually head the ball upfront - the 3 efforts from Trossard , March and Cucurella were powder puff at best.

Oh and stop passing along the backline - Gus bored us to death with it but at least he did it on the edge of our penalty box we now seem to want to do it in our own 6 yard box.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Hence the sentence "Obviously, the record against bottom teams involves Grahams tactics and choices". Nothing is solely down to the players, they are just the most important component.

Brighton got a bottom five squad when it comes to attacking players making it difficult to beat teams that focus primarly on defending.

Yet you’ve repeatedly stated on here that the answer is goals from the other players.


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[Swansman]

Yet you’ve repeatedly stated on here that the answer is goals from the other players.


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Yup, Maupay has a decent goal return and is a good mid-table player. This season Trossard is joining him in that sense, which is nice, and he'd be a good addition to most teams. Other than that, the problem of the limited quality of the attacking players persist. Hopefully Mwepu can help change that.

They might be top class players to the "of course we have a super-duper squad and should easily beat Newcastle" segment of NSC people but have a look outside and you'll find that a majority of the teams wouldnt swap any of their five best attacking players for any other than Trossard.

 

[Machiavelli]

I think there’s a mindset thing involved too which Potter needs to drum out of some, once we went ahead we looked complacent and, dare I say it, a little lazy. We stopped doing the basics as though we felt “that’s the win in the bag”. When Newcastle improved second half we then panicked as this wasn’t what we saw coming, and when they eventually equalised we looked totally shot from a confidence perspective, when we should have gone straight back to basics. The Sanchez red was a classic example of a team panicking, for instance.

It’s not the first time we’ve done this under Potter and I’d have hoped he’d have started coaching this out of us by now, but seemingly not.

Agree with this. It was the passivity that disappointed me most yesterday, particularly after we went one up

 

[Machiavelli]

The issue is more technical than "can't win games we should win".

The problem is this:

Big teams who are confident against us = They come out and play, we have space to attack, we can play our game.

Lesser teams who are not so confident against us = 10/11 behind the ball, we have space to play infront of them, but we can't break through the crowd and struggle to score.

The challenge we have is to improve our work in very tight spaces in the forward areas. Give us space for a counter and we are deadly. But park the bus and we struggle find a way through it.

All ball playing sides have this problem, but they are usually able to solve it because they are usually very rich sides, they play this way because they have amazing players and they often find a way in key moments to break through.

The truth is we are probably playing a level / style of football which is a little on the bold side for the players we have. But they can work on it, they can improve. Over time the players we have will get better (most are young), Potter will try to help them, we will strengthen the squad over time etc. I'm not saying this squad can't play this way. Just that we are coming up against an inevitable problem when you do. If we manage to solve this problem permanently it will probably be after a combination of 1) our best players reaching their full potential, and b) further strengthening over coming windows.

Don't feel down hearted about that fact that mastery of our playing style and system will take time, because when we do solve this problem permanently , there won't be much else to solve. The difference between where we are now and solving this problem is the difference between being a quality PL side vs playing in Europe and challenging for silverware.

Great post, although I think you're setting your sights too high in the final sentence. The club's current aim is to finish in the top ten regularly, which is some way short of 'playing in Europe and challenging for silverware'.

 

[GT49er]

1. Yes Brighton have a bit better players than they have so if the teams play eachother 10 times Brighton would likely get more points.

Except that theory doesn't work - not for Brighton anyway. Broadly, we have better players than teams that finish below us. Therefore, according to your theory, in ten games against teams below us, we would be likely to win most of them - or at least a substantial proportion.

We don't.

 

[Swansman]

Except that theory doesn't work - not for Brighton anyway. Broadly, we have better players than teams that finish below us. Therefore, according to your theory, in ten games against teams below us, we would be likely to win most of them - or at least a substantial proportion.

We don't.

Yup. Should also lose more games to better teams.

I've not said the results against the bottom teams cant improve.