[News] Post Office Scandal -

[Weststander]

Why? These people (with auditors) were the face of the PO when the subpostmasters were investigated and subsequently charge. The role of the investigator is to identify where the money went, which they simply did not do. Regardless of the pack of lies senior management may have fed them they had jobs to do.

Likewise, cross examinations that included questions like ‘are you giving money to paramilitaries?, ‘are you keeping a mistress?’ or telling people that they better confess otherwise they’ll go to prison is pretty shit.

Going through people’s houses and taking jewellery as ‘down payment/security’ is awful too.

Bottom line is that these people were personally involved in the interviewing of these innocent people.

The subpostmasters are quite clear about their views on the investigators and theirs is the view that matters, no one else’s.

The subpostmasters are even more clear about the corrupt people (PO and Fujitsu) running the whole lie and cover up. The top brass fed the investigators the very same lie that Horizon was working perfectly well.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I was only highlighting them as being a ‘face’ of the PO at the local branch. But, surely the penny should have dropped at some point?

It did and many did hit a wall when their concerns were raised. The PO restructured the auditors with many able to take early retirement. My friend jumped at the chance.

Without going into details my friend said that because they visited Post Offices frequently they built up friendships with Post Masters and knew them for decades. When things started to go wrong they would try the best they could within their remit to help. Conversely there were the obvious ones where they did take the money but these were not hard to prove.

The investigators, he said, were totally bonus orientated. I think that's an angle the inquiry is focusing on.

 

[Talby]

Thank you, can imagine watching those you’ve fostered a relationship with being criminalises must have been difficult.

the investigations stage (4) of the inquiry was always going to trigger negative views of some PO staff - these were the people who were culpable in terms of pursuing convictions and had hounded people. Some gave evidence at court. Most were over promoted.

Having one of them reading me my rights, going through my house etc would be an insult.

 

[Talby]

Thank you, can imagine watching those you’ve fostered a relationship with being criminalises must have been difficult.

the investigations stage (4) of the inquiry was always going to trigger negative views of some PO staff - these were the people who were culpable in terms of pursuing convictions and had hounded people. Some gave evidence at court. Most were over promoted.

Having one of them reading me my rights, going through my house etc would be an insult.

You've’

The subpostmasters are even more clear about the corrupt people (PO and Fujitsu) running the whole lie and cover up. The top brass fed the investigators the very same lie that Horizon was working perfectly well.

its the whole bunch. there is now an investigator on records saying they knew about the system flaws. It’s also the tactics used, these were innocent people after all.

Not one whistleblower from the PO.

imagine having someone like that try to ruin you. Doesn’t matter if there’s top brass there….that person is the one who has personally helped put you in court.

 

[Weststander]

You've’

its the whole bunch. there is now an investigator on records saying they knew about the system flaws. It’s also the tactics used, these were innocent people after all.

Not one whistleblower from the PO.

imagine having someone like that try to ruin you. Doesn’t matter if there’s top brass there….that person is the one who has personally helped put you in court.

Were you affected, family or yourself?

 

[Talby]

Were you affected, family or yourself?

No.

I’ve followed it for years though and correspond with some of the people you’ll have seen on TV since the ITV drama was aired.

 

[Weststander]

I look forward to The Met concluding their investigations, they say it will take 2 years. The enquiry has revealed criminal acts such as non disclosure, fraud (money taken under false pretenses), perjury and advice from solicitors to act dishonestly.

Hopefully criminal court cases to follow, as some solicitors will be taking early retirement on huge pensions, squeezed out by law firms. The prosecutions are vital so that they don’t get away with it.

 

[BLOCK F]

Seems to me that there are people of dubious moral character working at all levels involved in the persecution of the Postmasters/Postmistresses.

 

[Weststander]

They wrecked entire families.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68084538

 

[Thunder Bolt]

They wrecked entire families.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68084538

It’s heartbreaking when you read the details of how it affected the spouse and children.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Government were complicit in the sacking of Second Sight. BBC have obtained the unredacted minutes from "Project Sparrow":

Post Office accused of cover-up over secret Horizon documents

BBC obtains unredacted minutes showing government knew of plan to sack experts who found Horizon IT bugs.

www.bbc.co.uk

HMG (the tories) were complicit in a cover up.

 

[Talby]

It’s heartbreaking when you read the details of how it affected the spouse and children.

Pretty pertinent case in relation to not bringing organisations into disrepute.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Pretty pertinent case in relation to not bringing organisations into disrepute.

Organisations or individuals?

 

[Talby]

Organisations or individuals?

Both. There’s a huge credibility issue at stake. Any it’s now undermined.

 

[Papak]

Does anyone know (it might be in the 500+ posts above admittedly) the actual issue or issues with the software?

All I have been able to find out is that some transactions were duplicated if a key was pressed multiple times without displaying the additional accrued amount to the user.

This can't be the only bug, otherwise one would think anyone implicated would be able to check transaction values and quantities etc. and find the root cause.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Does anyone know (it might be in the 500+ posts above admittedly) the actual issue or issues with the software?

All I have been able to find out is that some transactions were duplicated if a key was pressed multiple times without displaying the additional accrued amount to the user.

This can't be the only bug, otherwise one would think anyone implicated would be able to check transaction values and quantities etc. and find the root cause.

There were issues with transactions being logged against terminals not in use and issues with transactions not being rolled back correctly when they failed (ie debiting accounts but not crediting others) were the two that I remember most, but there were loads and loads.

 

[Bodian]

There were some where if the link went down when the processing was happening (not uncommon), then when it came up again, the operator would have to press continue/complete or something. It would then take the (single) payment from the customer (say £250), and the (single) credit to the PO (£250). BUT - because of the bug, it had already credited the PO £250 when the system went down, but hadn't debited the customer because it hadn't finished the actions required to do so.

So - one payment of £250, but credited to PO twice. And so at the end of the day, it would look as though the PO was 'short' by £250.

 

[METALMICKY]

OK apologies but can I ask a silly question. Now if we accept that at the top end of the Post Office and/or Fujitsu there was corruption and a cover up to disguise the known issues with Horizon. However, did none of the Post Office investigators talk to each other and ask " bit odd that such a huge number of postmasters have gone rogue "?

 

[Talby]

OK apologies but can I ask a silly question. Now if we accept that at the top end of the Post Office and/or Fujitsu there was corruption and a cover up to disguise the known issues with Horizon. However, did none of the Post Office investigators talk to each other and ask " bit odd that such a huge number of postmasters have gone rogue "?

Well, that’s the thing…nothing in the scandal add up (literally). None of the investigations actually found any missing money.

 

[raymondo]

OK apologies but can I ask a silly question. Now if we accept that at the top end of the Post Office and/or Fujitsu there was corruption and a cover up to disguise the known issues with Horizon. However, did none of the Post Office investigators talk to each other and ask " bit odd that such a huge number of postmasters have gone rogue "?

I think the investigators ('Security Team ' I think they are called?) were probably enjoying their new found importance, possibly justified a bigger budget, higher salaries, bonuses and hiring extra staff...... what's not to like? that might be why they never wanted to question it.