[News] Post Office Scandal -

[cjd]

In a statement, Vennells said: “I have so far maintained my silence as I considered it inappropriate to comment publicly while the Inquiry remains ongoing and before I have provided my oral evidence.
“I am, however, aware of the calls from subpostmasters and others to return my CBE. I have listened and I confirm that I return my CBE with immediate effect.
“I am truly sorry for the devastation caused to the sub-postmasters and their families, whose lives were torn apart by being wrongly accused and wrongly prosecuted as a result of the Horizon system.”



This sums her up for me. She was made a CBE in 2019 - FIVE YEARS AGO. For her to suggest she has "listened" to those subpostmasters and others is galling beyond belief. Why did it take you five years to hand it back them, you obnoxious cow? It's almost as if she didn't listen at all and only did it before this clueless but populist government did it for her, on the back of a petition that had reached nearly 1.5m signatures.

She probably thought that imaginary tosser called God was batting for her.

 

[Sirnormangall]

The thing I can't get my head around is that presumably there would have been a helpdesk or similar that Postmasters and Postmistresses would have been getting in contact with to raise the issues that they were experiencing. The people working on that helpdesk MUST have clocked that there were more and more of the same things being raised. Given that everyone being investigated was seemingly told that they were the only one, there must have been a specific and proactive decision taken by someone to advise helpdesk staff to not tell the truth. I also fail to believe that the people working on the helpdesks wouldn't have flagged that there were things happening that clearly didn't make sense. People must have been 100% questioning the accuracy of the system, but they must have been silenced internally.

There will be commercial contracts between PO and Fujitsu for the provision of the system and ongoing support. My guess is both parties knew there were system problems and PO chose what they thought would be the easier and cheaper route of prosecuting the soft target (postmasters) rather than taking on the the deep pockets of Fujitsu for breach of contract.

 

[clapham_gull]

Whilst it is definitely the correct decision to give the CBE back, I can't help but wonder whether a lot of the crucial decisions in this were made by lower levels of senior management, who are faceless in all of this.

Starts at the top I'm afraid, especially with the money she was on.

If the drivel below her didn't feel in a position to say what they thought, that's on her.

 

[portlock seagull]

Criminal Charges need to be brought against senior and mid management executives in this epic corruption story. Before they die. Jail time. Regardless of where working now or retired to. Current employers should scrutinise staffs’ former employment records for involvement back then. And then wisely ‘let them go’, before drag their brand into court of public opinion to be judged. Corporate equivalent to harbouring former SS guards!

 

[beorhthelm]

this is an interesting collection of data, showing the start and end of the occurances of prosecutions. for added context, there was third party audit in 2012, reporting in 2013.

Post Office reviewing 900 prosecutions since 1999

Reporting the High Court class action against the UK Post Office

www.postofficetrial.com

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

There will be commercial contracts between PO and Fujitsu for the provision of the system and ongoing support. My guess is both parties knew there were system problems and PO chose what they thought would be the easier and cheaper route of prosecuting the soft target (postmasters) rather than taking on the the deep pockets of Fujitsu for breach of contract.

Like with any major IT project, there will have been a formal process for recording, prioritising and fixing/testing/signing off bugs. These would have been held on a database jointly accessible by PO and Fujitsu. The bugs would have been subject to regular review, typically on a weekly basis, and would have been fully annotated with progress, observations, decisions etc. These need to be made available to any investigation

 

[Simster]

Like with any major IT project, there will have been a formal process for recording, prioritising and fixing/testing/signing off bugs. These would have been held on a database jointly accessible by PO and Fujitsu. The bugs would have been subject to regular review, typically on a weekly basis, and would have been fully annotated with progress, observations, decisions etc. These need to be made available to any investigation

You say that, but sometimes even these basic procedures and processes are not undertaken.

I remember working for NatWest Cards in London (their credit card division) back in 1997, and some of the network drives containing important data were not backed up, and of the 15 or so applications being supported, not a single one of them had a test environment.

So you can imagine what happened one day - a handful of incorrect transactions were reported and some guy in support went to fix it (directly in production) and accidentally dropped 100,000 credit card transactions from the production database! (He was an Albion fan from Hassocks ) I mean, mistakes happen and that's the whole point of test environments.

 

[nicko31]

BBC breaking news

Paula Vennells is handing back her CBE

So many BS honours being given out and its getting worse.

Its sad its been so degraded

Needs reform and get rid of the ridiculous "E"

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Criminal Charges need to be brought against senior and mid management executives in this epic corruption story. Before they die. Jail time. Regardless of where working now or retired to.

Agree.

In addition, she (and others) were given 'performance related bonuses' - which were based on higher than they would have been profits - higher because subpostmaters had paid back to the PO money they were accused of stealing, thus inflating the POs profits.

So as well as handing back her CBE, she has large amounts (of taxpayers) money to repay.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Like with any major IT project, there will have been a formal process for recording, prioritising and fixing/testing/signing off bugs. These would have been held on a database jointly accessible by PO and Fujitsu. The bugs would have been subject to regular review, typically on a weekly basis, and would have been fully annotated with progress, observations, decisions etc. These need to be made available to any investigation

Didn't Second Sight (the independent investigation team) find there was an anomaly, but couldn't prove it in court, until the whistleblower got the courage to give evidence?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Didn't Second Sight (the independent investigation team) find there was an anomaly, but couldn't prove it in court, until the whistleblower got the courage to give evidence?

Might be wrong but I don't believe details of the list of known bugs was ever handed over to the independent investigators. That list will exist tho

 

[beorhthelm]

Agree.

In addition, she (and others) were given 'performance related bonuses' - which were based on higher than they would have been profits - higher because subpostmaters had paid back to the PO money they were accused of stealing, thus inflating the POs profits.

So as well as handing back her CBE, she has large amounts (of taxpayers) money to repay.

Post Office didnt make profits in the period of the postmasters prosecutions.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Post Office didnt make profits in the period of the postmasters prosecutions.

Yes they did - and she was given bonuses based on profits.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Might be wrong but I don't believe details of the list of known bugs was ever handed over to the independent investigators. That list will exist tho

I doubt they did, but the chap from the Post Office Union had said he'd seen it, so Second Sight knew there had to be something wrong. Hopefully the list will exist, as Fujitsu need to be punished imo, especially as the government is still handing them contracts.

 

[beorhthelm]

Yes they did - and she was given bonuses based on profits.

seems i was under incorrect info they didnt turn a profit until 2016. eitherway, its dodgy trying to claw back a bonus of one individual for events over 15 year, and there's a public inquiry underway that a lot want to preempt.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I doubt they did, but the chap from the Post Office Union had said he'd seen it, so Second Sight knew there had to be something wrong. Hopefully the list will exist, as Fujitsu need to be punished imo, especially as the government is still handing them contracts.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

seems i was under incorrect info they didnt turn a profit until 2016. eitherway, its dodgy trying to claw back a bonus of one individual for events over 15 year, and there's a public inquiry underway that a lot want to preempt.

You've got faith in the public inquiry? It will go the way of the covid inquiry with lost phones, Whatapp messages and no recollections.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

 

[Guinness Boy]

 

[Birdie Boy]

With what, 700+, prosecutions, surely it would be easy for a team of investigators to go through the lot, if there is no proof or evidence where the money went the throw it out. One you find with encoded, prosecute. It really can't take that long surely...