Poppies

[then and now]

It is the soldier not the press that has given us the freedom of speech
It is the soldier who salutes the flag,
Who serves under the flag,
Who's coffin drapes the flag,
Who allows the protester to burn the flag( bastards)

 

[pastafarian]

For the first year ever I bought a poppy but didn't wear it. Or rather I did wear it but then took it off before the 11th. The final straw was the EDL protestor at FIFA with a banner emblazoned with a poppy symbol but bearing the slogan 'support our troops'. The poppy is (or is supposed to be) about remembrance, not about 'supporting' the British military. I was also appalled at the appearance of giant, outsize poppies that some people are wearing. I'd never seen them before but I was at a function on Friday night at there were about a dozen of them. This too is in direct conflict with the original meaning. When the War Graves Commission was first set up it was assumed that the war cemeteries in France and Belgium would be run like English churchyards, that is individuals would be responsible for their own memorials and thus those who could afford them could have big, lavish ones whilst the poorer Tommies would have to be satisifed with a cheap wooden plaque. It was decided that all memorials would be the same size, but now we have people flaunting their, well I don't know what it is, by wearing outsize poppies as if that makes them 'better' citizens than those with standard-sized ones.

The whole combination; outsize poppies, the EDL, the pathetic row with FIFA (football shirts at this time of year never used to have poppy symbols on them) and the bullying implication that not wearing one is somehow 'un-British' has all left a nasty taste in my mouth. Sadly I don't think it's going to get better any time soon which is a crying shame.

have to agree with you especially on these oversized poppies,even seen some celebs wear super sized ones with sequins,WTF is that all about,frankly its f***ing disgusting. I guess the only thing that can be done is the majority of us normaltons should continue to wear a poppy and continue to act with a little bit of dignity around this time and hope maybe the FA EDL and the such will piss off and not hijack it anymore

 

[bobby smith]

*Deep Breath*

Okay so here is my question.

Why does everyone suddenly seem to be so up in arms about poppies?

Don't get me wrong I wear one every year and used to go to the burma star ceremony with my granddad and agree with the sentiment.

But! it seems like the last few years we are all over the top about it. The whole England team thing seemed completely over the top (according to football weekly England have never worn poppies in 37 competitive friendlies at the beginning of November - Football Weekly). Last year i remember outrage because someone didn't wear a poppy o the telly.

I just don't remember the country being so incensed about it. You wore your poppy or you didn't. So what is going on?

As Barry and Jimbo say have we all gone stark raving bonkers or is there something else?

People who dont wear a POPPY or remember the day DO NOT deserve to be in this GREAT COUNTRY of ours

 

[Beach Hut]

I think the FA, Prince William and the PM were all very wrong to start this nonsense with FIFA.

As for the EDL they totally devalued exactly what the poppy stands for which is a disgrace

 

[Working class pride]

In the 30s there was a debate about poppies and many ww1 vets wore both white and red poppies. Some vets at that time didnt like the "Haig Fund" as general Haig was blamed for military blunders like telling people to walk when going over the top. I am of a generation who knew and were helped to be brought up by WW2 vets and also saw ww1 vets walk past the cenotaph. WW1 had conscription and we remembered the futile murderous waste, with entire villages losing their men in a single morning. WW2 had a cause that most signed up to. What is a shame however is that Remembrance Sunday is now so staged and jingoistic. I wear a red poppy but the military should be more low profile because it used to be about the average Tommy being slaughtered by the military in WW1 for frankly a soding pointless cause and then a great sadness that WW2 had to be fought.

 

[shaun_rc]

In the 30s there was a debate about poppies and many ww1 vets wore both white and red poppies. Some vets at that time didnt like the "Haig Fund" as general Haig was blamed for military blunders like telling people to walk when going over the top. I am of a generation who knew and were helped to be brought up by WW2 vets and also saw ww1 vets walk past the cenotaph. WW1 had conscription and we remembered the futile murderous waste, with entire villages losing their men in a single morning. WW2 had a cause that most signed up to. What is a shame however is that Remembrance Sunday is now so staged and jingoistic. I wear a red poppy but the military should be more low profile because it used to be about the average Tommy being slaughtered by the military in WW1 for frankly a soding pointless cause and then a great sadness that WW2 had to be fought.

This, I'm glad from this thread that I'm not the only one unhappy about the hijacking of the poppy for jingoistic reasons, totally opposed to the original message. I've thought about a white one, but I know some people think that's disrectpectful too. How can you just say you're sad, you remember, without draping it in a Union Flag? The way our awful press goes, I also can only see this getting worse in the next few years.

P.S. The WW1 association is also why SBTS is important, and also really sad if you think about it.

 

[Working class pride]

This, I'm glad from this thread that I'm not the only one unhappy about the hijacking of the poppy for jingoistic reasons, totally opposed to the original message. I've thought about a white one, but I know some people think that's disrectpectful too. How can you just say you're sad, you remember, without draping it in a Union Flag? The way our awful press goes, I also can only see this getting worse in the next few years.

P.S. The WW1 association is also why SBTS is important, and also really sad if you think about it.

Totally agreed, and the bbc has used that irritating git who is the royal correspondent to do the commentary. The hypocracy would not be lost on those knee deep in mud in the trenches of ww1. The royal correspondent (if we should have one paid for by the taxpayer at all) doing remembrance sunday is the taking over of an event that was about people who risked their lives, and died, not the sodding "royal" family - none of whom died in ww1 or ww2.

 

[vegster]

I have bought my poppy quite willingly and have it pinned on one of my coats, I don't always wear the same coat so, does that make me disrespectful as the England players intimated they would be if they were not allowed to wear the symbol for 2 hours ? Frank Lampard made a lovely little statement during the week which seemed to have been written by the FA's top PR man. Lots of talk of " respect, loyalty, debt owed, honour " etc. and all utterly fabricated rubbish. Pity they weren't playing in a couple of weeks time, they could have asked to wear a Pudsey Bear for that..

 

[Working class pride]

P.S. The WW1 association is also why SBTS is important, and also really sad if you think about it.[/QUOTE]

Yep. That is what "Stand or Fall" means... and they did.

 

[Buzzer]

In the 30s there was a debate about poppies and many ww1 vets wore both white and red poppies. Some vets at that time didnt like the "Haig Fund" as general Haig was blamed for military blunders like telling people to walk when going over the top. I am of a generation who knew and were helped to be brought up by WW2 vets and also saw ww1 vets walk past the cenotaph. WW1 had conscription and we remembered the futile murderous waste, with entire villages losing their men in a single morning. WW2 had a cause that most signed up to. What is a shame however is that Remembrance Sunday is now so staged and jingoistic. I wear a red poppy but the military should be more low profile because it used to be about the average Tommy being slaughtered by the military in WW1 for frankly a soding pointless cause and then a great sadness that WW2 had to be fought.

For someone who professes to be working class you've got a lot of middle class guilt going on there.

 

[Working class pride]

For someone who professes to be working class you've got a lot of middle class guilt going on there.

Guilt? Not my guilt, just a great grandfather that died of gas in WW1. What about you, did you have any relatives murdered by WW1, the queen doesnt, well not on England's side anyway, she might have had a few that died for the Kaiser.

 

[Buzzer]

Guilt? Not my guilt, just a great grandfather that died of gas in WW1. What about you, did you have any relatives murdered by WW1, the queen doesnt, well not on England's side anyway, she might have had a few that died for the Kaiser.

f*** sake, that's a cheap shot and yes, she did lose relatives. She lost an uncle who fought for Black Watch in the First World War and had another who was MIA for ages and spent years convalescing from his injuries. Since that time I don't think anyone, not even you, could argue that the Royal Family haven't seen active service. For a start her husband fought a long and very brave war. Seriously, that's a huge chip on your shoulder if you're going to play the 'Royal Family are German' racism card.

Edit - and yes, of course I lost relatives in WWI. Most people did.

 

[matthew]

Kind of see wearing a poppy as just showing people you've given to charity, it doesn't matter if you wear one or don't only if you've given some money for the poppy appeal

 

[jakarta]

Totally agreed, and the bbc has used that irritating git who is the royal correspondent to do the commentary. The hypocracy would not be lost on those knee deep in mud in the trenches of ww1. The royal correspondent (if we should have one paid for by the taxpayer at all) doing remembrance sunday is the taking over of an event that was about people who risked their lives, and died, not the sodding "royal" family - none of whom died in ww1 or ww2.

Ahem.... The Duke of Kent was killed on Active Service in 1942 when his aircraft crashed - unless you think the Kings Brother wasn't a member of the Royal Family?

 

[Working class pride]

f*** sake, that's a cheap shot and yes, she did lose relatives. She lost an uncle who fought for Black Watch in the First World War and had another who was MIA for ages and spent years convalescing from his injuries. Since that time I don't think anyone, not even you, could argue that the Royal Family haven't seen active service. For a start her husband fought a long and very brave war. Seriously, that's a huge chip on your shoulder if you're going to play the 'Royal Family are German' racism card.

Edit - and yes, of course I lost relatives in WWI. Most people did.

A cheap shot that made a point. Her husband wasn't royal when he fought, he hadnt even met her. No mate, Im pointing out that the message of WW1 is being lost as this rubbish about "tradition" is given priority. People were sodding angry after WW1 and things changed. After WW2 they were angry again, hence Churchill lost the election and the NHS was formed (No Im not a raving lefty, in fact not left at all but social history tells us this). I wear a poppy but the military need to stop using it as a recruitment drive. Now remind me, what were the Windsors called before WW1, the war to fight the Kings relatives for er, building an empire.. not that Britain would do that of course.

 

[Working class pride]

Ahem.... The Duke of Kent was killed on Active Service in 1942 when his aircraft crashed - unless you think the Kings Brother wasn't a member of the Royal Family?

Fair point, and WW2 a difficult war to argue against. The point is that remembrance sunday should be that, not a recruiting drive or a jingoistic day. Dont forget what and who it is that you remembering

 

[newhaven seagull 85]

the military do not use the poppy as a recruitment tool.

 

[tedebear]

I don't often wear a poppy although I'll always contribute. I don't like when people feel they need to wear one as they can't be seen not wearing one. Do you think the England squad would all choose to wear one if there was no press led ganging of the FA? I'd rather them wearing it as it personally means something to them to remember what others have done for us.

Also I find every single bloody politician wearing one a little OTT to be honest, I do wonder if they are wearing it as they are scared someone will call them unfeeling if they don't, and it may affect their career.

 

[newhaven seagull 85]

Fair point, and WW2 a difficult war to argue against. The point is that remembrance sunday should be that, not a recruiting drive or a jingoistic day. Dont forget what and who it is that you remembering

or a time to make cheap shots at the establishment

 

[newhaven seagull 85]

I don't often wear a poppy although I'll always contribute. I don't like when people feel they need to wear one as they can't be seen not wearing one. Do you think the England squad would all choose to wear one if there was no press led ganging of the FA? I'd rather them wearing it as it personally means something to them to remember what others have done for us.

Also I find every single bloody politician wearing one a little OTT to be honest, I do wonder if they are wearing it as they are scared someone will call them unfeeling if they don't, and it may affect their career.

it would be better if they spent the fortnight of the appeal actively collecting