[Albion] Player Ratings - Bournemouth (H)

[One Teddy Maybank]

Come off it.

Murray gets so much stick. Even this week the deluded still zzzzz claiming on nsc that he cost us a result against Liverpool, whereas Hughton and the football world thought Liverpool outclassed us.

I think what Hughton says in public and what he says in private to the players are two different things.

Only a fool would say the sitter Murray missed, which they immediately capitalised on did not have an impact. It wasn’t the reason we lost though.....

But it’s not just the ones he missed, because at least he has been in the position to have the opportunity, recently it’s been the offsides, ball watching generally and general work-rate.

IMO he has been off-form and needed a rest, today he did look sharper again.

I still think he gets little stick compared to others, but all opinions....


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[perseus]

Ryan - 7 - a couple of really decent saves but I can’t help thinking his lack of dominance of his box is causing our weakness at defending corners
Schletto - 7 - some great moments of skill. Supported AK well on the overlap. Nearly gave away a needless penalty for a blatant shove in the back. MOTM?? You’re having a laugh
Suttner - 6 - okay defensively but poor deliveries on several occasions
Duffy - 7 - great ball to start the move for the first goal. Not as dominant as he can be
Dunk - 8 - superb again
Stephens - 6 - looked understandably knackered. Why didn’t hughton bring on Kayal?
Propper - 7 - amazing lung busting run into the box for izqerdo’s one on one. Loved the double foul too.
Izqerdo - 9 - brilliant, just brilliant. He terrified Bournemouth, got two assists and nearly got a third himself. It looked like his penultimate touch was a bit heavy, or he got a bobble. It happens. MOTM
Gros - 7 - typical Gros, covering every blade of grass again
Knockaert - 8 - superb today. Great finish for the goal, wanted the ball all the time and even roused the crowd
Murray - 7 - marked up for his goal. A decent centre forwards display but was running on empty. Why no Hemed?

Bruno - 6

Hughton -6 - got the team selection spot on, but fresh legs might have seen us home

]]

Agree and that is rare. Apart from the spelling of names. Schelotto 8 for three headed clearances.

1 Mathew Ryan
2 Bruno
3 Gaëtan Bong
4 Uwe Hünemeier
5 Lewis Dunk
6 Dale Stephens
7 Beram Kayal
8 Jirí Skalák
9 Sam Baldock
10 Tomer Hemed
11 Anthony Knockaert
12 Niki Mäenpää
13 Pascal Groß
14 Steve Sidwell
15 Jamie Murphy
17 Glenn Murray
18 Connor Goldson
20 Solly March
22 Shane Duffy
23 Liam Rosenior
24 Davy Pröpper
29 Markus Suttner
30

37 Izzy Brown

José Izquierdo
Aleš Mateju
Ezequiel Schelotto
Tim Krul

 

[Knotty]

And feigned injury playing them onside when they scored their 2nd.

Really?

 

[Banter]

People tend to make the assumption as Ryan is 6 foot 1 he is not good at dealing with crosses but he's got one of the lowest amount of punches in the league (13th) and he's 3rd in the league for claiming crosses! Our problem lies in our poor marking from set pieces. I can't think of a set piece we've conceded where Ryan should've claimed it.

 

[WhingForPresident]

Ryan 7

Schelotto 8
Duffy 6
Dunk 7
Suttner 7

Knockaert 8
Stephens 6
Propper 6
Izquierdo 8

Gross 8

Murray 7

Sat right at the front of ESL and really got an appreciation for just how intelligent Murray's play up top is in the second half.

Impressed with Suttner and Izquierdo on the left and Schelotto put in a much improved performance. Hopefully we will see more of the same from Knocky as well.

Feel we could've done with Kayal in the middle with about half an hour left. CH's reluctance to make substitutions continues to be frustrating...

Thought the decision for Schelotto to win MoM was justified at the time but it should really have been Izquierdo on reflection.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

He had up to Man Utd away, but was then poor. At this level it is unacceptable to be caught offside as frequently as he has been recently, in terms of questioning people’s understanding of football, this type of comment always irks me, as you have little knowledge of the level people may have played or coached at.

He did play okay today, but nothing more IMO, and to further reiterate my point about him drifting too wide today, apparently Hughton also got in his ear about it.

I do think you make a valid point regarding how deep we are, and the gap between The midfield and Gross and then Gross to Murray, but that makes it even more important to put in a shift for the team.


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When you’re using the phrase “apparently Hughton got in his ear about it” to back up your point, it becomes quite clear you’re undermining your own argument by using hearsay. And that argument in itself is a weak one. By nature, he is a target man who is expected to win his share of headers from long passes out of the back so that others can play off him. Luckily today, the rest of our team actually got up to support him. But he’s often in those wide areas to give our full backs an outlet out of defence and, in turn, to allow our wingers to play off him. It’s fairly logical tactical thinking, especially when those players are often 20-30 yards away from him.

As to your offside point, he is offside fairly regularly but that’s because he’s trying to push their defence back. Our fastest players are our wide players yet for much of the season they've been so deep that they've simply not been a threat in behind, allowing the opposition to compress play by pushing up, which isolates Murray and puts our defence under more pressure. The logical thing, as a striker is to try and push the defence further back by making intelligent runs in behind and opening up space for the other attacking players - it’s that horrible, multifaceted role I was talking about that is very difficult to play in our system. But as you alluded to, your football understanding is of a high level and I shouldn’t dare irk you by pointing out such an obvious tactical point.

Either way, I’m sorry, but you’ve not suggested any real reason to make me question my belief that Murray had a good game yesterday.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

He had up to Man Utd away, but was then poor. At this level it is unacceptable to be caught offside as frequently as he has been recently, in terms of questioning people’s understanding of football, this type of comment always irks me, as you have little knowledge of the level people may have played or coached at.

He did play okay today, but nothing more IMO, and to further reiterate my point about him drifting too wide today, apparently Hughton also got in his ear about it.

I do think you make a valid point regarding how deep we are, and the gap between The midfield and Gross and then Gross to Murray, but that makes it even more important to put in a shift for the team.


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When you’re using the phrase “apparently Hughton got in his ear about it” to back up your point, it becomes quite clear you’re undermining your own argument by using hearsay. And that argument in itself is a weak one. By nature, he is a target man who is expected to win his share of headers from long passes out of the back so that others can play off him. Luckily today, the rest of our team actually got up to support him. But he’s often in those wide areas to give our full backs an outlet out of defence and, in turn, to allow our wingers to play off him. It’s fairly logical tactical thinking, especially when those players are often 20-30 yards away from him.

As to your offside point, he is offside fairly regularly but that’s because he’s trying to push their defence back. Our fastest players are our wide players yet for much of the season they've been so deep that they've simply not been a threat in behind, allowing the opposition to compress play by pushing up, which isolates Murray and puts our defence under more pressure. The logical thing, as a striker is to try and push the defence further back by making intelligent runs in behind and opening up space for the other attacking players - it’s that horrible, multifaceted role I was talking about that is very difficult to play in our system. But as you alluded to, your football understanding is of a high level and I shouldn’t dare irk you by pointing out such an obvious tactical point.

Either way, I’m sorry, but you’ve not suggested any real reason to make me question my belief that Murray had a good game yesterday.

 

[neilbard]

M Ryan 8
E Schelotto 8
S Duffy 6
L Dunk 7
M Suttner 7
A Knockaert 7
D Stephens 7
D Propper 6
J Izquierdo 8
P Gross 7
G Murray 7

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

When you’re using the phrase “apparently Hughton got in his ear about it” to back up your point, it becomes quite clear you’re undermining your own argument by using hearsay. And that argument in itself is a weak one. By nature, he is a target man who is expected to win his share of headers from long passes out of the back so that others can play off him. Luckily today, the rest of our team actually got up to support him. But he’s often in those wide areas to give our full backs an outlet out of defence and, in turn, to allow our wingers to play off him. It’s fairly logical tactical thinking, especially when those players are often 20-30 yards away from him.

As to your offside point, he is offside fairly regularly but that’s because he’s trying to push their defence back. Our fastest players are our wide players yet for much of the season they've been so deep that they've simply not been a threat in behind, allowing the opposition to compress play by pushing up, which isolates Murray and puts our defence under more pressure. The logical thing, as a striker is to try and push the defence further back by making intelligent runs in behind and opening up space for the other attacking players - it’s that horrible, multifaceted role I was talking about that is very difficult to play in our system. But as you alluded to, your football understanding is of a high level and I shouldn’t dare irk you by pointing out such an obvious tactical point.

Either way, I’m sorry, but you’ve not suggested any real reason to make me question my belief that Murray had a good game yesterday.

“Apparently”, as I didn’t witness it myself and was told last evening.

But re your point of Murray drifting wide, no, because Hughton wants us to break quickly, and it’s completely counter-intuitive to have space blocked by a relatively slow player. The only time he should be that wide should be on goal-kicks or if a full back is looking for an ‘out’ ball, by going for distance, and even then he’d be chasing his own flick-on.

If a forward pushed up, in order to push the defence back, they would simply let step up which is basically what they’ve been doing, hence the countless offsides. He has not been looking along the line enough and I think he is trying to ‘pinch’ a start more due to the pace issue than anything else.

In relation to intelligent running, clearly Murray’s preferred route seems to be a straight line to the back post this season, see yesterday’s goal and Southampton. It would be great to see him go near post now and again (as he was doing up until Utd), particularly as Knockaert’s best crosses seem to be in this area, but I’m sure you would have picked this up [emoji6].

I’ve not alluded to anything about my level of football understanding, you’ve assumed that, I’ve just highlighted that in a discussion, comments relating to an understanding of football, are IMO a little naive given you don’t know your audience. As per my other posts I’ve not suggested he was poor yesterday, but just okay and did what was required.

We all see the game differently, which is what is best about NSC.




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[Thunder Bolt]

Those who are criticising Dunk, Duffy & Ryan should remember we have 8 clean sheets, and a better defence than Arsenal.
We are up against Prem players, & Cook is an experienced header of the ball (more experienced than Dunk).
Cook's header ricocheted off the under side of the bar, into the far corner. Unsaveable.

I also think the ref should've blown up for a foul when Murray went down.

 

[Napier's Knee]

Ryan 7
Schelotto 7
Duffy 5
Dunk 6
Suttner 7
Izquierdo 9
Propper 7
Stephens 7
Knockaert 8
Gross 8
Murray 7

CH 5 - the players are better than they are being allowed to be right now

 

[Wardy's twin]

M Ryan 7- held that shot which was above his head and going in. it would have been very easy to concede that one.
E Schelotto 7 a lot of good play but not enough outcome... I am a big Bruno fan but would expect to see him keep the shirt now as his height was very useful in defensive moments and added speed to attacks
S Duffy 6 - maybe needs a break but what a pass
L Dunk 7 - had to deal with Wilson who is a very good player and dealt with him pretty well
M Suttner 6.5 good game, better 'footballer' than Bong but did not have the impact with his crossing this time
A Knockaert 7.5 - brilliant goal and continues to work hard
D Stephens 6.5 -had a clear opportunity to shoot but did not take it ,
D Propper 6.5 really runs hot and cold for me , does some great chasing back and then b*ggers it up
J Izquierdo 8 MOTM by a country mile and so pleased he started as he is one of the pieces in the jigsaw we are missing - should have shot shame he did not score
P Gross 7 hot and cold BUT plays some brilliant balls. really want him to have less defensive work
G Murray 7

 

[Withdean11]

Ryan - 7
Schelloto - 7
Duffy - 6
Dunk - 6
Suttner - 6.5
Knockaert - 8
Stephens - 6.5
Propper - 7
Izquierdo - 8.5
Gross 8
Murray - 7.5

 

[Brighton Mod]

Ryan 8 lots of good saves. Little he could do about either goal.
Schelotto 7 a mixed bag of a performance but probably more good than bad. Some good defending, some rampaging runs that led no where, some strange use of the ball.
Duffy 5 started brilliantly on the ball, like he’d been learning from Dunk and Goldson, but caught out for both goals and was a defensive weakness again. I do wonder what he has to do to lose his place to Goldon or Uwe. To top it off, missed his obligatory glorious chance from a corner.
Dunk 7 not as commanding as usual. Looked much more assured with Goldson next to him. Neither goal was really his fault mind.
Suttner 7 a decent performance but a few too many crosses were wayward.
Knockaert 8 got his goal and good defensively. His best performance of the season for me.
Stephens 6 a mixed bag. Decent passing but gave away what felt like a few fouls in bad areas.
Propper 7 better offensively than his partner. Made a big mistake for their equalising goal.
Izquierdo 8 two assists, decent defensively, and always an attacking danger. Missed two cracking chances though and clearly tired towards the end and we suffered as a result.
Gross 7 probably a poor performance statistically, but everything good offensively went through him.
Murray 8 got his goal, won a lot in the air, worked hard defensively. A very good performance that was let down by his work For their first goal.

Subs
Bruno 5 not an ideal introduction at not an ideal time.
Brown N/A

Good point on Duffy, I thought he was slow and behind the pace yesterday, for all the praise our centre backs receive, they have a small sphere of influence and have a lot of support from the midfield. Again we suffered from not being able to defend a set piece and no one assumining responsibility in the centre of defence.

I have also seen some criticism of CH on here on a day when we created 5 clear goalscoring chances, adapted our game to play in Izzy and pretty much got the best from every player on the field. We didn't take our chances and it cost us two points, time for players to stand up because I thought yesterdays game plan was spot on. Thats a ten from me for CH.

 

[Bring back Bryan wade!!]

Ryan - 7
Schelotto - 6
Duffy - 6
Dunk - 7
Suttner - 6
Knockaert - 7
Propper - 7
Stephens - 6
Izquierdo - 8
Groß - 8
Murray - 6

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

“Apparently”, as I didn’t witness it myself and was told last evening.

But re your point of Murray drifting wide, no, because Hughton wants us to break quickly, and it’s completely counter-intuitive to have space blocked by a relatively slow player. The only time he should be that wide should be on goal-kicks or if a full back is looking for an ‘out’ ball, by going for distance, and even then he’d be chasing his own flick-on.

If a forward pushed up, in order to push the defence back, they would simply let step up which is basically what they’ve been doing, hence the countless offsides. He has not been looking along the line enough and I think he is trying to ‘pinch’ a start more due to the pace issue than anything else.

In relation to intelligent running, clearly Murray’s preferred route seems to be a straight line to the back post this season, see yesterday’s goal and Southampton. It would be great to see him go near post now and again (as he was doing up until Utd), particularly as Knockaert’s best crosses seem to be in this area, but I’m sure you would have picked this up [emoji6].

I’ve not alluded to anything about my level of football understanding, you’ve assumed that, I’ve just highlighted that in a discussion, comments relating to an understanding of football, are IMO a little naive given you don’t know your audience. As per my other posts I’ve not suggested he was poor yesterday, but just okay and did what was required.

We all see the game differently, which is what is best about NSC.




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You've still used hearsay to back up a weak point. But I feel that's an argument no longer worth pursuing, as I'm sure you'd agree.

Why should that be the only time he's that wide? If you defend deep as a team and you have one striker up front on his own, then by nature he is often trying to occupy more than one defender on his own at any one time. That means playing across the whole of the defensive line. Many, many strikers do it. Just because none of our strikers are well rounded enough to have all of the attributes to do every part of the multifaceted role doesn't mean that that isn't what is required of them.

Your point regarding pace and space is an interesting one, although I think that depends on the role being asked of the striker. Are you of the opinion that Murray should simply stand in a central position and wait for chances to be created? Because that appears to be what you're insinuating?

I don't doubt he's been offside more than he should've been and I don't doubt that he's trying to pinch an inch or two here or there to compensate for a lack of pace. That much we can agree on. Add that to the fact he's playing against better defenders who will be more attuned about when to step up and that means he is caught offside more often. But, like I said, he's not a world class forward and he doesn't have a lot of pace, so these are inevitable issues. That doesn't make the strategy of trying to push the defensive line back a poor one. If anything, it shows Murray's willingness to embrace this multifaceted role in spite of his weaknesses, which should be applauded, shirley?

Whilst I appreciate a bit of sarcasm as much as the next person, your point is again a weak one. One of the biggest issues we've had all season, and one of the reasons we're scoring so few goals is because we're often relying on Murray alone to be the person in the box getting on the end of crosses. In reality, the issue isn't with Murray going back or front post, the issue is with a lack of supporting runs into the box from other players to ensure the crosser has enough options to pick the best one for his cross... rather than just having to hope Murray can isolate his man at the back post. But then again I'm sure you would have picked this up

You're right, we all do see the game differently. I guess my overriding question for you is a simple one. What more do you actually expect from Murray (or our other forwards) given their respective limitations and the style and system that Hughton implements?

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Good point on Duffy, I thought he was slow and behind the pace yesterday, for all the praise our centre backs receive, they have a small sphere of influence and have a lot of support from the midfield. Again we suffered from not being able to defend a set piece and no one assumining responsibility in the centre of defence.

I have also seen some criticism of CH on here on a day when we created 5 clear goalscoring chances, adapted our game to play in Izzy and pretty much got the best from every player on the field. We didn't take our chances and it cost us two points, time for players to stand up because I thought yesterdays game plan was spot on. Thats a ten from me for CH.

My only real criticism of CH yesterday was his lack of fresh faces earlier in the game when it was clear a number of our players were f*cked.

 

[Renegade]

Proper throwing the player around like a toy gets him a 10 for me.

 

[aolstudios]

Proper throwing the player around like a toy gets him a 10 for me.

Superb

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

You've still used hearsay to back up a weak point. But I feel that's an argument no longer worth pursuing, as I'm sure you'd agree.

Why should that be the only time he's that wide? If you defend deep as a team and you have one striker up front on his own, then by nature he is often trying to occupy more than one defender on his own at any one time. That means playing across the whole of the defensive line. Many, many strikers do it. Just because none of our strikers are well rounded enough to have all of the attributes to do every part of the multifaceted role doesn't mean that that isn't what is required of them.

Your point regarding pace and space is an interesting one, although I think that depends on the role being asked of the striker. Are you of the opinion that Murray should simply stand in a central position and wait for chances to be created? Because that appears to be what you're insinuating?

I don't doubt he's been offside more than he should've been and I don't doubt that he's trying to pinch an inch or two here or there to compensate for a lack of pace. That much we can agree on. Add that to the fact he's playing against better defenders who will be more attuned about when to step up and that means he is caught offside more often. But, like I said, he's not a world class forward and he doesn't have a lot of pace, so these are inevitable issues. That doesn't make the strategy of trying to push the defensive line back a poor one. If anything, it shows Murray's willingness to embrace this multifaceted role in spite of his weaknesses, which should be applauded, shirley?

Whilst I appreciate a bit of sarcasm as much as the next person, your point is again a weak one. One of the biggest issues we've had all season, and one of the reasons we're scoring so few goals is because we're often relying on Murray alone to be the person in the box getting on the end of crosses. In reality, the issue isn't with Murray going back or front post, the issue is with a lack of supporting runs into the box from other players to ensure the crosser has enough options to pick the best one for his cross... rather than just having to hope Murray can isolate his man at the back post. But then again I'm sure you would have picked this up

You're right, we all do see the game differently. I guess my overriding question for you is a simple one. What more do you actually expect from Murray (or our other forwards) given their respective limitations and the style and system that Hughton implements?

Given that my original point was that he was languishing in the wing at times, and we had no-one in the middle as a consequence, I really don’t see it as a weak point at all. As you have highlighted it is a lot harder this year, in terms of quality and even more so, in relation to playing in a conservative 4-4-1-1. Therefore the last place he should be is occupying Knockaert’s space, unless it is for the reason as per my previous post, defensive relief.

To answer a couple of points in one, whilst not restrictive, I think in the main Murray should work across the width of the box, which again at Utd he did perfectly.

The near post, far post thing is important, because it is far more difficult for a defender to defend against a ‘blind’ run across him, than a straight run. Yesterday although Murray was central, the first goal was a great example of what should be happening more in my view, Nurray occupying the CB whilst the winger from the other side attacks the back post (in this case Knockaert).

As I have highlighted until post Utd, I was happy with Murray, but he needs to be more disciplined defensively (that could be the system in all honesty), needs to return to making different runs and getting across the man more and better movement (yesterday was an improvement).

Also I would have taken him off yesterday at 60 mins as he looked knackered.

Always easy in the stand though.


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