[Finance] Paying energy bills by direct debit - scam?

[BN41Albion]

Nothing but praise for Octopus and their levels of service:

• Easy-to-use website
• Helpful staff who always respond - often with more than I asked for
• Smart Meter has never been a problem
• Can change my payments whenever I want. I'm 'in control' in their language
• Quite fun for a large organisation, without coming across as naff and trying too hard
• Pricing not too bad

I'm now with Octopus, but setting up a DD on the website I can't seem to see how much it's set up for - a fixed amount or just what we owe each month?! Just put in my account details and which date I'd like to pay each month and can't seem to find anymore details than that!

 

[BN41Albion]

Just reading through the thread and trying to work out based on the posts whether it's more cost-effective to pay by DD fixed amount and let some credit build up or just make a monthly one-off payment just paying what you owe, as we have been the last few years?

 

[Hugo Rune]

Just reading through the thread and trying to work out based on the posts whether it's more cost-effective to pay by DD fixed amount and let some credit build up or just make a monthly one-off payment just paying what you owe, as we have been the last few years?

My credit is going to cover me the extra £90 I need per month (above my normal DD fixed amount) until April next year. I’m quite surprised that this is probably going to happen but I’m quite pleased that I’ve got that credit in place now.

 

[Bozza]

Just reading through the thread and trying to work out based on the posts whether it's more cost-effective to pay by DD fixed amount and let some credit build up or just make a monthly one-off payment just paying what you owe, as we have been the last few years?

It would be marginally more cost-effective to pay what you owe when billed, as you retain cash in your bank account accruing interest, rather than giving the energy supplier some cash to earn some margin on themselves.

It will be very marginal though - interest is going to pennies over a year.

Ultimately, regardless of which method you choose - you still only pay for what you actually use.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

I'm with Shell Energy for electricity and they reduced my direct debit by £66 temporarily whilst the government payment is being paid. My monthly payment has also gone down.
I can input my own readings (I wouldn't touch a smart meter with a barge pole), and alter the DD amount on their website.

My advice is to ring up, ask for your credit balance to be repaid, and then pay monthly yourself. Cancel your direct debit.
The company has also broken the Direct Debit code by not giving you 10 working days notice of a change in your payment.

Sorry Thunderbolt. I don't think anyone would recommend cancelling the DD and paying monthly yourself. That's a recipe for forgetting to make payments and disaster, plus losing your DD discount.

 

[dazzer6666]

I'm now with Octopus, but setting up a DD on the website I can't seem to see how much it's set up for - a fixed amount or just what we owe each month?! Just put in my account details and which date I'd like to pay each month and can't seem to find anymore details than that!

They’ll initially estimate your usage and take it from there

How we manage Direct Debits at Octopus Energy

How we work out what you should pay, how we put you in control and check your balance is on track throughout the year. And how Direct Debits have changed in the energy crisis.

octopus.energy

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

I find Octopus pretty good. We were with the Co-op before them - and so we've had a smart meter for something like 5-6 years now. And that means (generally) no estimates - so their predictions have been based on 5 years' past usage, which has been pretty even and regular. I'm prepared to accept that they are now over-predicting, because we have, like many, cut down on our gas usage (hard to cut down on our tiny electric usage). So, for a year or two, I think that their predictions are going to be a bit out, until we all settle into a 'new normal'. And when I have pointed this out to them and reduced my direct debit from what they were 'suggesting', they were very amenable.

The one thing I do struggle a bit with is this 'build up a credit for the winter'. Their aim is to never let you go below £0 - whereas if it was really spreading it out over the year, we would be in debit during the winter, in credit during the summer - and at a nil balance around the equinoxes. Just like the sun. Which would be fitting, as that is where all our energy has ultimately come from!

I am also in the 'I like Octopus' camp. I have been very impressed so far (excepting the DD thing I mentioned). I like the ethos of the company, it seems better than most and the website is helpful as well.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

We have a joint account and both pay in . . . I Rarely look at it TBH, its designed to have some excess each month, just in case, been happily ticking for nearly 20 years . . . it was only when I got a text to say we were OD . . . . It’s a nice problem to have some credit for a change!

If you double and double again DD's twice inside 6 months the credit soon builds up. They actually emailed Mrs Zef eventually, their suggestion was to up It to over a grand a month!!!

This is when I launched into my favourite Angle Saxon phrases, cancelled everything paying out thats not justified or authorised.

PArt of the reason we were over paying is for 10 years I worked from home, a workshop full of tools, compressor, heaters etc, so our electric use was almost double 'normal' a 3hp compressor and a 6hp flow bench eat it up alright . . . . But the slack arsed meter readers, and even now, non operational 'smart' meter still render them incompetent profiteering scum . . .IMO.

THey're all ****s out there.

I too am surprised you let the balance build that high without noticing. The thing is that’s a credit balance upon which they will be paying you interest. Think of it as a savings account rather than a cost to you. Just ask for it back if you want it. People do need to be proactive with their energy accounts in this volatile, high price market. I check my online Ovo account every day. Takes less than a minute to look at usage and get a feel for how much we are spending. As already said I also submit meter readings every three days because the smart meter is actually a bit dim.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Sorry Thunderbolt. I don't think anyone would recommend cancelling the DD and paying monthly yourself. That's a recipe for forgetting to make payments and disaster, plus losing your DD discount.

Set a reminder on your phone, and pay on the company website by card. I no longer get a discount for paying by DD, by being moved by Ofgem.

With many companies going to the wall, it’s not wise to have massive credit balances, although you should know what your annual usage is, and whether you will need it to cover the heavier usage months.

 

[drew]

We had a smart meter installed just over 3 years ago and every bill since has been estimated. Not so smart.....

We're with Shell Energy as we were transferred to them when previous supplier went belly up. I can change my direct debit online quite easily and if they are going to change it I get an email to notify me. I've got about £670 in credit and am happy with this for the winter. Conscious only the last few days have been really cold but because of the credit, happy to have the heating almost constantly.

Really happy with the smart meter, especially the in house monitor which I've used to help reduce usage. For example, according to the last bill our usage over the same period last year was 1041 KWh and the same period this year is only 638. Some of that will possibly be down to what the weather was but in the main, we have changed how we use power. We make far more use of our solar panels during the day, eg setting dishwasher, washing machine etc to come on in daylight. Likewise, ironing is done during the day rather than in the evening.

Not quite sure what people's concerns are about a smart meter. Companies cannot just cut you off as there are protocols they need to go through.

As for TANFC, if your bills are showing as estimates then contact your supplier as you may have a problem with the smart meter!!

 

[drew]

there's nothing smart about them, thats just fancy branding. when they work they are simply remote controls for the power companies. their purpose is to enable power companies to switch tariffs according to demand or cut supply.

They can't just turn off your supply though and they can't just switch your tariff.

 

[drew]

Set a reminder on your phone, and pay on the company website by card. I no longer get a discount for paying by DD, by being moved by Ofgem.

With many companies going to the wall, it’s not wise to have massive credit balances, although you should know what your annual usage is, and whether you will need it to cover the heavier usage months.

But your credit balance is protected by law. If your company goes belly up then your balance will be transferred to your new supplier.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

But your credit balance is protected by law. If your company goes belly up then your balance will be transferred to your new supplier.

In theory, yes.

 

[zefarelly]

I too am surprised you let the balance build that high without noticing. The thing is that’s a credit balance upon which they will be paying you interest. Think of it as a savings account rather than a cost to you. Just ask for it back if you want it. People do need to be proactive with their energy accounts in this volatile, high price market. I check my online Ovo account every day. Takes less than a minute to look at usage and get a feel for how much we are spending. As already said I also submit meter readings every three days because the smart meter is actually a bit dim.

I now log in once a month, as you say, smart meter is a bit Tim Loughton. we're currently not paying anything out in energy useage and will probably not have to for a year . . . Which will helpfully see us through the worst of the latest shitstorm.

 

[beorhthelm]

They can't just turn off your supply though and they can't just switch your tariff.

you've heard about power companies offering to charge more during peak times? charge less overnight? the functionality is there to switch tariffs. smart meters were not pushed just so you can have a display indoors.

 

[Papak]

Sorry to have locked horns. I started out with a considerable amount of sand in my vagina, today, over this. In a pub we would have untangled this mysterious web in 30 seconds. All the best

Same here, I'm unwell and get massively triggered by talk of energy costs, DDs etc. etc. primarily from Daily Mail types (not including you in that btw) and I agree F2F it would have been sorted in no time!

 

[Papak]

Don't apologise. First post that got my piss steaming was his . . .it read like he was a staunch shareholding employee ;-)

Which one?

 

[Bozza]

We're with Shell Energy as we were transferred to them when previous supplier went belly up. I can change my direct debit online quite easily and if they are going to change it I get an email to notify me. I've got about £670 in credit and am happy with this for the winter. Conscious only the last few days have been really cold but because of the credit, happy to have the heating almost constantly.

Really happy with the smart meter, especially the in house monitor which I've used to help reduce usage. For example, according to the last bill our usage over the same period last year was 1041 KWh and the same period this year is only 638. Some of that will possibly be down to what the weather was but in the main, we have changed how we use power. We make far more use of our solar panels during the day, eg setting dishwasher, washing machine etc to come on in daylight. Likewise, ironing is done during the day rather than in the evening.

Not quite sure what people's concerns are about a smart meter. Companies cannot just cut you off as there are protocols they need to go through.

As for TANFC, if your bills are showing as estimates then contact your supplier as you may have a problem with the smart meter!!

Smart meters seems to be one of those things that a certain section of the population get all funny about. It's Big Brother keeping an eye on us and controlling us at will. Or something.

Like you, we've had one for years although never paid any attention to it until prices rocketed and, also like you, having access to the data it provides - which I generally access via the Hugo Energy and Loop apps - has allowed us to cut back our energy usage quite significantly. I don't doubt it would have been possible to do the same without a smart meter, but it would have involved a lot more guesswork.

 

[Bozza]

Oh, also because we have a smart meter, we've been able to take part in the "Turn Down and Save" hours - we've done two recently, one from 5-6pm and another from 5:30-6:30pm.

By shifting our cooking a bit later in the evening we've saved about a fiver. Loop say there are at least seven more of these to come over the winter, so we're likely to be a few quid better off for, frankly, doing nothing.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

I looked at my energy use at the weekend. I am with Octopus. I was using economy 7 withe the sual day/night rate difference. I looked at my dad's single tariff for electricity and realised I could save about £15 a month if I switched. I emailed asking for a quote and I was right except it was about an £18 a month saving. So imagine my surprise and shock when this evening I looked and saw that they had upped my direct debit from £160 a month (before the govt payout of £67) to £263 a month. I wanted to save money, not increase my DD. I am using way less energy than previous years and have about £400 in reserves in my account. It was simple to change the DD to a more realistic level, but at the same time I think their prediction algorithm is useless. For instance, for the month of November they predicted I would use £240 energy whilst actual use was £135. It was a similar saving the month before. The program does not seem able to adapt to changes in habit. These are changes that I know many others have also followed. What a mess.

I've been delighted with Octopus since I was switched when my old company went bust. Great comms, clear tariffs, immediate response to changes in DD at my request. They wanted to reduce my DD when the Gov't support clicked in, but I pushed it back to the same level to stay about £240 in credit towards higher Bill's.