[Football] Paul Merson: Football and Gambling. BBC 1

[cunning fergus]

Bit harsh, and implying the dumb working class can't control themselves implies it is pointless arguing with you.

I despair with this kind of attitude to people who can't help themselves and have other underlying issues that contribute to gambling issues, resulting in on average one person a day taking their lives.

Do they turn up the heating in trading rooms to confuse people, do they remove the clocks as they do in bookmakers ? Bookmakers use lots of sneaky tricks to keep punters in the shop or online with free spins and bets etc, the two are not comparable.

"a fool and his money are easily parted" is a very convenient phase probably first uttered by a wealthy politician or lord of the manor, with the emphasis on they deserve it because they are oik's.

Who is arguing?

People that want to speculate can lose their own money on any range of ill thought out scheme every day. Is speculating on the nags with bet365 any worse than someone that is playing the FX markets?

It appears so, and yet the snobbery about the ills of sports betting, a predominantly working class pursuit, deflects from the many other ways that people embark on their journey to the poor house.

I know someone who went bankrupt due to over leveraging on property development in the run up to 2008 and at around the same time I know someone who lost everything they had (marriage included) on gambling on golf.

Both were very good at what they did and had made decent money before. However in the end they were both greedy and when the plans were going wrong made ill thought-out decisions; however only one had the social stigma of losing all they had on sports betting.

The constant focus on sports gambling as the epitome of aggressive capitalism misses out the much bigger (and more dangerous) institutions behind day trading, commodity and property speculation etc. However, as this thread demonstrates these more honourable ways of gambling get a free pass.

If our beloved Tony is making his money from property speculation, somehow that is more reasoned and honourable than is someone places a monster bet that Withold pops up in the Cesarawitch.

 

[Silverhatch]

Capitalism at its absolute worst. These bookies have the ‘right’ to maximise their profits. Wetherspoons are the equivalent to alcoholics.

It doesn’t sit that comfortably with me that TB has made a lot of his money via this industry.

Bloom is not a bookmaker. He is more akin to a fund manager who has a huge statistical engine (Star Lizard) dedicated to finding value in markets and then having the capital (via an invitee-only syndicate) to place bets on those markets. I doubt Star Lizard has placed a futures-financial-transaction (bet) in a European Market for 20 years.

One-to-one digital technology and legislation that enable the retail bookmaker targeting of individually ill-people like Paul Merson are the problem(s). As Merson himself said "[Individual] Compulsive Gamblers have no limits to set."

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I stand to be corrected by anyone with real knowledge, but I suspect that is unlikely

Tony made his reputation as a semi-professional gambler, whilst working for Ernst & Young.
He was headhunted by Victor Chandler and worked with them for a while, primarily as an expert in the Asian handicap market.
He secured his reputation in the industry, when he convinced Chandler's management, to bet the profits from the 98 world cup, on France to win the final.

He set up an online bookies Premier Bet in time for the 2002 World cup and sold it later for £1m.
Star Lizard is one of his major businesses, where he "invests" a syndicate of client's money in various betting markets across the world.

Other than the Premier Bet website, I'm not aware of any other involvement in running bookies/casinos.
Most of his business dealings have been around setting/evaluating odds and taking money from bookies.

Wherever his billions came from, it wasn't from punters pockets.

 

[Insel affe]

However, as this thread demonstrates these more honourable ways of gambling get a free pass.

I agree, with what you have said about other forms of gambling so to speak in the markets. However strongly disagree about people getting a free pass if it is sports betting, gambling. You yourself are clearly not, and neither do a lot of other people care or understand, more help and regulation needs to happen right across the board starting with the government, betting advertisements on at every break during a match, happens for a reason, to take your money, to get you hooked, it is just a bit of fun, oh and when the fun stops, don't forget to stop....
However if you do stop we will send out an email with an offer for free spins or a bet on the next match, just to let you know we miss you (your money)

The government banned smoking adverts and re cooped lost revenue from the betting industry..

 

[SAC]

I missed most of it but turned on to see the suicide bits, not nice to watch.

A lot of my mates bet and I often hear about their massive wins, I dread to think of what their losses are (never hear about them). I don't think any of them are addicted, although it is often impossible to be sure. Personally, I'm far too tight to waste too much money on gambling, I will bet if I watch the horses but that's only once or twice a year.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Tony made his reputation as a semi-professional gambler, whilst working for Ernst & Young.
He was headhunted by Victor Chandler and worked with them for a while, primarily as an expert in the Asian handicap market.
He secured his reputation in the industry, when he convinced Chandler's management, to bet the profits from the 98 world cup, on France to win the final.

He set up an online bookies Premier Bet in time for the 2002 World cup and sold it later for £1m.
Star Lizard is one of his major businesses, where he "invests" a syndicate of client's money in various betting markets across the world.

Other than the Premier Bet website, I'm not aware of any other involvement in running bookies/casinos.
Most of his business dealings have been around setting/evaluating odds and taking money from bookies.

Wherever his billions came from, it wasn't from punters pockets.

My understanding is that Harry, Tony's grandfather, was a multi millionaire over 50 years ago. I know TB is an excellent businessman, but I always understood that the portfolio that he now manages is extremely diverse and has been built up over generations. The reason there is so much focus on his gambling interests is because Tony is fiercely private and that's the only part that the press can easily trace to him (and the fact he plays poker as a hobby, makes a good story)

 

[thedonkeycentrehalf]

I’ve never understood addiction, least of all gambling as an addiction. I appreciate people can get chemically dependent on tobacco, alcohol, cocaine and so on. But gambling?

That was a real eye-opener. And the implications/accusations that the betting companies are preying on those they ought to be able to identify as addicts is terrifying. The stories about the suicides, as mentioned above, were heartbreaking.

I now have far more sympathy for “problem” gamblers than I have ever had before.

Trying to get the discussion back on track, although this focused on gambling, the stuff with Imperial College about how your mind reacts will be the same for anyone with an addictive personality.

Merson made the comment about online betting making it easy - this is the same for a lot of addictions such as trading, shopping or even food. Deliveroo etc will feed a compulsive eater at most hours of the day.

If you have an addictive personality then a tablet / smartphone is the worst thing you can own.

 

[pasty]

Found it a very interesting programme. Especially all the stuff about how the betting companies store data and use it. I probably do bet a little bit too often, although nowhere near as much as some of those featured, and have definitely been guilty before of chasing losses.

One piece of fairly recent legislation I am quite pleased about, is it is now not possible to make deposits online using a credit card. Think that is a really positive move.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I’ve always thought of him as a rubbish pundit, but absolutely all credit to him for that.

I’ve never understood addiction, least of all gambling as an addiction. I appreciate people can get chemically dependent on tobacco, alcohol, cocaine and so on. But gambling?

That was a real eye-opener. And the implications/accusations that the betting companies are preying on those they ought to be able to identify as addicts is terrifying. The stories about the suicides, as mentioned above, were heartbreaking.

I now have far more sympathy for “problem” gamblers than I have ever had before.

I know a problem gambler. He is wined and dined at events by the bookies and spread betting companies as one of their large clients. He told me he once went to a Gamblers Anonymous meeting. Usual format shown on tv with people introducing themselves and explaining their addiction and the times they have lost a few hundred quid. When it came to his turn he explained his story but took a few zeros away from his losses as he was so embarrassed at the sheer scale compared to the other people in the room. He has lost fortunes but he has it to lose. He knows he is lining the bookies pockets but can’t stop himself.

 

[Insel affe]

I know a problem gambler. He is wined and dined at events by the bookies and spread betting companies as one of their large clients. He told me he once went to a Gamblers Anonymous meeting. Usual format shown on tv with people introducing themselves and explaining their addiction and the times they have lost a few hundred quid. When it came to his turn he explained his story but took a few zeros away from his losses as he was so embarrassed at the sheer scale compared to the other people in the room. He has lost fortunes but he has it to lose. He knows he is lining the bookies pockets but can’t stop himself.

Everything is relative, and as I have mentioned before on other threads, I had a problem several years ago when I was fitting and getting paid cash in hand sometimes earning £500 a day and blowing a good portion of that, but I was young dumb and could afford it, not married and no kids, it carried on and even after I got married and then had my daughter, and thought this has to stop, I went to some GA meetings, which helped. But to this day still have an urge, but I do things to prevent myself, I used to get my wages paid into the wifes account until recently and the first thing I did with my banking app was use the no gambling switch which prevents your card being used in a bookmakers or on line, yes it can be switched back on but takes three days to kick in, by which time that urge would or should have gone. I no longer listen if possible to talksport that has continuous adverts for betting companies, the same with tv, when watching a match at half time, switch off or over. It might sound like I am soft or stupid, but it just helps me. I now save money and have things to show for my work, and enjoy time with my family as opposed to being grumpy, guilty after a loss or bad day.
But having said that, I never really suffered as in lost or sold anything valuable to me, it was disposable income so to speak.

It is hard to explain, why I did it, mainly because I was bored and it was fun, then it was chasing a loss, telling myself a big win and I will be even, but you never are and the hardest thing is to know they have £100k of my money over a five year period probably.
Thank god, there were no betting apps out when i was hooked, that is something I have never done.

There was a young lad who went to about 4 meetings crying he had lost all his money, and gangsters had threatened his family and he did not know what to do, as they were serious people, after a few missing meetings we found out he killed himself over 2k.

I have an addictive personality, but what is that ?
I don't want sympathy, it was my fault, my loss, and now my history, but the gambling industry loved people like me, that is how they make their money.

Good luck to anyone with an issue, it is not easy x

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Everything is relative, and as I have mentioned before on other threads, I had a problem several years ago when I was fitting and getting paid cash in hand sometimes earning £500 a day and blowing a good portion of that, but I was young dumb and could afford it, not married and no kids, it carried on and even after I got married and then had my daughter, and thought this has to stop, I went to some GA meetings, which helped. But to this day still have an urge, but I do things to prevent myself, I used to get my wages paid into the wifes account until recently and the first thing I did with my banking app was use the no gambling switch which prevents your card being used in a bookmakers or on line, yes it can be switched back on but takes three days to kick in, by which time that urge would or should have gone. I no longer listen if possible to talksport that has continuous adverts for betting companies, the same with tv, when watching a match at half time, switch off or over. It might sound like I am soft or stupid, but it just helps me. I now save money and have things to show for my work, and enjoy time with my family as opposed to being grumpy, guilty after a loss or bad day.
But having said that, I never really suffered as in lost or sold anything valuable to me, it was disposable income so to speak.

It is hard to explain, why I did it, mainly because I was bored and it was fun, then it was chasing a loss, telling myself a big win and I will be even, but you never are and the hardest thing is to know they have £1000k of your money over a five year period probably.
Thank god, there were no betting apps out when i was hooked, that is something I have never done.

There was a young lad who went to about 4 meetings crying he had lost all his money, and gangsters had threatened his family and he did not know what to do, as they were serious people, after a few missing meetings we found out he killed himself over 2k.

I have an addictive personality, but what is that ?
I don't want sympathy, it was my fault, my loss, and now my history, but the gambling industry loved people like me, that is how they make their money.

Good luck to anyone with an issue, it is not easy x

Nothing soft or stupid about that mate. They prey on the frailty of human nature. I work in the financial markets and have met people with addictive personality. I know someone who lost everything one evening in the trading pit when some big news came out in the oil market and he was high on coke and booze. Another who lost his marriage and lots of money. Like you say, it’s all relative. It’s the same problem and only differs in scale. Sounds like you understand the problem and that banking switch sounds like a fantastic idea. Good luck.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Everything is relative, and as I have mentioned before on other threads, I had a problem several years ago when I was fitting and getting paid cash in hand sometimes earning £500 a day and blowing a good portion of that, but I was young dumb and could afford it, not married and no kids, it carried on and even after I got married and then had my daughter, and thought this has to stop, I went to some GA meetings, which helped. But to this day still have an urge, but I do things to prevent myself, I used to get my wages paid into the wifes account until recently and the first thing I did with my banking app was use the no gambling switch which prevents your card being used in a bookmakers or on line, yes it can be switched back on but takes three days to kick in, by which time that urge would or should have gone. I no longer listen if possible to talksport that has continuous adverts for betting companies, the same with tv, when watching a match at half time, switch off or over. It might sound like I am soft or stupid, but it just helps me. I now save money and have things to show for my work, and enjoy time with my family as opposed to being grumpy, guilty after a loss or bad day.
But having said that, I never really suffered as in lost or sold anything valuable to me, it was disposable income so to speak.

It is hard to explain, why I did it, mainly because I was bored and it was fun, then it was chasing a loss, telling myself a big win and I will be even, but you never are and the hardest thing is to know they have £1000k of your money over a five year period probably.
Thank god, there were no betting apps out when i was hooked, that is something I have never done.

There was a young lad who went to about 4 meetings crying he had lost all his money, and gangsters had threatened his family and he did not know what to do, as they were serious people, after a few missing meetings we found out he killed himself over 2k.

I have an addictive personality, but what is that ?
I don't want sympathy, it was my fault, my loss, and now my history, but the gambling industry loved people like me, that is how they make their money.

Good luck to anyone with an issue, it is not easy x

It was the addictive personality bit that I didn't get before.

But from what they illustrated on the programme, it is not your fault, because you have things in your brain which are making you do it. So all the more credit for overcoming it.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

And [MENTION=13230]Psychobilly freakout[/MENTION] I should clarify that the reason I relayed the story about the bloke I know who was ashamed to disclose the scale of his losses was because he lied to a self help group. The size didn’t matter but lying to himself and everyone in that room seemed to me such a pointless thing to do.

 

[southstandandy]

Based on the comments here I will try to give this a watch tonight as it sounds interesting.

In the pub the other night I saw some guy put the best part of £80 down a fruit machine and got nothing in return which to many people is nearly a days wage. I can't get my head around gambling and how clearly addictive it is for some people.

Addiction is a clearly very strange thing. The bookie nearly always wins so why bother? I enjoy watching the football for the sporting spectacle it is not because I could put money on a prediction.

Hopefully the programme will enlighten me more as it seems incredibly sad that some people even consider or commit suicide as a result. I seriously hope anyone on here who does have a problem gets help as a problem shared is often a problem halved.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Ive just caught up with this programme. Wow!

All plaudits to Paul for putting his story out to the public. The guy gambled away the money he and his wife had saved for the deposit on a house! He seemed genuinely scared that he's always one step away from a bet. Fortunately I have no personal point of reference that compares to that, just Wow!

Hopefully he'll be OK and will have encouraged a few others to take the first positive steps.
Well done PM.

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

Tony Adams podcast possibly worth a listen on the theme of addiction

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/bryony-gordons-mad-world/id1224672811?i=1000539228130

 

[BBassic]

Tony Adams podcast possibly worth a listen on the theme of addiction

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/bryony-gordons-mad-world/id1224672811?i=1000539228130

Brilliant listen.

 

[banjo]

Really eye opening documentary. I like a bet but not to that extreme, £1 here or there. Is it true he once had a bet in a cafe on which fly would fly off the table first? Or is that just a myth.

 

[raymondo]

Really eye opening documentary. I like a bet but not to that extreme, £1 here or there. Is it true he once had a bet in a cafe on which fly would fly off the table first? Or is that just a myth.

No, it was just a moth

 

[giveusfalmerplease]

Paul Merson was lucky to have a loving forgiving family and friends behind him to help him through it. I recently found out a friend i had from my school days also recently took his own life. Despite earning over 500k a year from ForEx and share trading he blew the lot constantly I remember once playing a game of snooker with him - we were both average players and having played usually for the table hire, suddenly one day he wanted to play a frame for a grand and i was like WTF. he said if i lost i could pay him installments and when i refused that was the last time i saw him.

i bumped into his mother in town recently and she said he lost about 5 million over 20 years but spent most of his time living rough before he took his own life as he had drained every ounce of goodwill and "one last chance mum" from her. Imagine how desperate the mother must have got to throw her son on the street, hoping to teach him a lesson but ultimately taking his own life.