Paul Barber speaks out on bus price increase etc

[Gwylan]

Because we are not raking in money from spectators thats the problem (i suspect) the point being if our wages are low and we haven't gone that mad in the transfer market we should be!

El P was saying we are at a disadvantage because say Reading has parachute payments (and we don't) so their income is greater but that advantage disappears when they pay premiership wages to players in the championship

You're confusing two different issues: our financial position in terms of FFP which you, rightly, makes us better off if we try to keep wages within manageable limits.

But the issue I was addressing was the one raised earlier "It is hard to understand how we have the greatest attendances, one of the highest prices and yet are told our playing budget is the 14th in the league. The answer to that is that we are not paying Premier League wages and our losses will be limited but we're still behind on playing budgets.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

1) Not necessarily, it could be a staged payment deal.
2) The same as happens when any business sells an asset; if you sell for less than the book value you've made a loss.

1) Doubtful Clubs need the money too much some of them don't even own all of the player

2) Not with football - eg If Liverpool had sold Andy Carroll for anything above £18m in the summer, they would have recorded the difference as a profit on player sales during 2013/14 (they didn't as he went for £15M so its only a small loss this year)

That loss will show up properly eventually though!

 

[Chicken Runner61]

You're confusing two different issues: our financial position in terms of FFP which you, rightly, makes us better off if we try to keep wages within manageable limits.

But the issue I was addressing was the one raised earlier "It is hard to understand how we have the greatest attendances, one of the highest prices and yet are told our playing budget is the 14th in the league. The answer to that is that we are not paying Premier League wages and our losses will be limited but we're still behind on playing budgets.

So is having the 14th playing budget good or bad?

I'd say it was good as our losses would be a lot worse if we were say 4th - Clubs lose money and go bust mainly because of transfers not because of wages. They buy players and pay agents fees write down fee over the contract then sell the players at a loss when promotion fails or they get relegated. this comes out a few years later and they go bust (like Pompey) they didn't go bust because of falling attendances.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

So is having the 14th playing budget good or bad?

I'd say it was good as our losses would be a lot worse if we were say 4th - Clubs lose money and go bust mainly because of transfers not because of wages.

I'm not so sure about that. If you are using Portsmouth as an example, they doubled their fee for players like Diarra and Defoe, for example. However, I don't think Portsmouth are a good example. They never saved for a rainy day and were left with huge contracts when their income halved or more.

 

[brightn'ove]

Paul Barber

 

[Cowfold Seagull]

Said it before, say it again, the Odeon don't pay your fare to go and see a film at their venue. Why on earth should the Albion subsidise your matchday travel in any shape or form? Fair enough when the club was jumping through concentric circles of bullshit to get planning permission. but these days are gone forever. Pay your own damn transport costs!

Absolutely right. What is it with people?. With the club losing 8.5 million a year, these special free bus services that operated from various locations direct to the ground were bound to be scrapped. But so what?, all it means is that the poor people inconvenienced will have to travel on two buses instead of one, changing in the city centre to get to the Amex, adding up to an hour to your journey. Hey you still get to travel for FREE!. I feel soooo sorry for you ... NOT.

 

[dougdeep]

Absolutely right. What is it with people?. With the club losing 8.5 million a year, these special free bus services that operated from various locations direct to the ground were bound to be scrapped. But so what?, all it means is that the poor people inconvenienced will have to travel on two buses instead of one, changing in the city centre to get to the Amex, adding up to an hour to your journey. Hey you still get to travel for FREE!. I feel soooo sorry for you ... NOT.

THIS. It's the real world. Most clubs would love the amount of free travel that we get.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

This is quite a good site that explains FFP:

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/financial-fair-play-explained.php

This is the Football League's information on FFP:

http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/FLExplainedDetail/0,,10794~2748246,00.html

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

i know your're technically right, but theres no provision to actually make that the objective is there? like having wages and other playing side costs capped at a % of revenue?

on the other hand, they have excluded things like capital expediture, for stadiums and training facilites exempt from the sums right? for most clubs this travel thing isnt an issue as they never had a subsidy, so we are an edge case the rules didnt allow for.[/QUOTE]

We are probably the only club in the Football League that subsidises transport for fans (?). We should therefore demand that these costs are removed from the FFP calculations. Unless of course they already are and the club are just using FFP as a smokescreen to reduce its losses at our expense.

Have a look at the Football League website:

http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/FLExplainedDetail/0,,10794~2748246,00.html

Under the section detailing the Championship it says the following: "A club is also entitled to apply to the Financial Fair Play Panel to have certain exceptional items excluded from the Financial Fair Play Result in a particular year. Such as (but not limited to):"

The "but not limited to" part could mean the club could claim exemption from the travel costs.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

THIS. It's the real world. Most clubs would love the amount of free travel that we get.

It isn't free. We pay £50 on top of our season ticket to partially cover the price. This is a year out of date but shows the cost of season tickets for other clubs who don't have to provide transport.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19842397

 

[amexee]

it definitely seems wrong that this should be announced just before the start of the season.

Obviously people were getting something for nothing and are now being asked to pay for it, and those people will not be happy. However those using the service were getting something that most fans were not. Public buses and trains remain free, as they are for people coming from example Hayward Heath. You also get the option from Haywards Heath to travel by coach, by the fan organised coach or via Seagulls Travel. If you want to use either of the latter you have to pay extra.

It seems that all these other services are being brought into line with each other.

 

[LukeOwen]

Are every other championship club going as nuts as we are over FFP?

 

[Brighton Breezy]

it definitely seems wrong that this should be announced just before the start of the season.

Obviously people were getting something for nothing and are now being asked to pay for it, and those people will not be happy.

They were not getting something for nothing. They were getting something for the travel subsidy cost of season ticket.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Are every other championship club going as nuts as we are over FFP?

That thought had crossed my mind.

 

[dougdeep]

They were not getting something for nothing. They were getting something for the travel subsidy cost of season ticket.

Which still doesn't cover the cost of the travel provided.

 

[somerset]

I can only assume that they don't have the poorly thought out operating cost model that we do,....despite them having higher playing budgets and lower crowds than us.

 

[fosters headband]

They were not getting something for nothing. They were getting something for the travel subsidy cost of season ticket.

And some people who live in Worthing, Haywards Heath are still going to get it for their travel subsidy, but someone who live as little as two miles away will pay an extra £76 on top.

 

[Daddies_Sauce]

While I’ve not had time to trawl through this and the various other bus threads, it seems to me that:-

The club sold season tickets that include a £50 levy for travel costs, based on previously travel arrangements i.e. the S/H/P/R buses. There are those areas that do not have a service direct to the Amex, so public transport into and out of the town centre will be crammed with supporters before and after the games, causing all sorts of ‘loading’ problems for trains and buses in town. Or there will be those who get lifts from wives/partners to somewhere close and will walk the remaining distance to the ground, clogging up the roads. In essence a ‘free’ £50 for the club.

‘Free travel’ has been in place since Withdean it was a condition of the club coming back to the town. Once the move was made to the Amex then the £30 levy was imposed, but while my son and I paid for our books of travel tickets, there are many many many supporters who took the piss, and did not purchase the travel books, but jumped on free travel.

This just smacks of ‘find ways to keep the supporters behind and lets milk them of even more money in the shop or on the concourses as they will not be able to get away quickly anyway’.

The club needs to make money to invest, it has to abide by the FFP rules but these have exceptions that the club could apply for.

It’s all starting to leave a very nasty taste of “taking the piss” by the club.

 

[Brighton Breezy]

Which still doesn't cover the cost of the travel provided.

Neither does the £50 travel subsidy the train users pay etc, but no additional cost there. It now seems you can pay £75 for your own transport on these bus routes AND eye £50 subsidy to help fund the trains and park and ride you will not use.

Also, and my main point would be, fans now pay around £500 a year for a season ticket. That is all cash the club can spend on what it sees fit, including fan transport. It doesn't just have to be funded by Tony Bloom and the travel subsidy.

 

[fosters headband]

Which still doesn't cover the cost of the travel provided.

Well stick on a further £76 on all season tickets then at least that would be fair.