[Albion] Pascal Groß the raumdeuter - officially leaves for Dortmund :(

[Whitechapel]

I can not see how Dortmund will afford the fee. He is so important he will command an above market price as replacing him will cost a fortune.

No matter how important he is, if you can’t see how Dortmund will be able to afford the fee for a 33 year old with 1 year left on his contract then you’re being wilfully naive.

 

[American Seagle]

Well who do you suggest to replace him (money no object)

He needs to be replaced by 3 or 4 players. Cover for full back, a holding midfielder, an attacking mid fielder and maybe a winger.
That is why I would be amazed if a few can be agreed to. Gross is worth tens of millions. Probably 30-50.

 

[jackalbion]

No one is ready to be his replacement. But someone will have to learn to be.

Buonanotte is the most similar player in style and has done the difficult first 18 months with decent results. Think he'll get his breakthrough now.

Another similar player will probably be added but we've got 40+ players expecting first team football next season, not everyone who leaves will be replaced by new players.

We did this last season with arguably two of the best midfielders in the league, and we finished mid table, to do this for a third and arguably more important midfielder, we will finish even lower. We can’t just rely on what we’ve already got here, there’s very few in the U21s or out on loan that are good enough to fill this role, it has to be an external replacement. This is an important window after two arguably very poor ones from a recruitment side.

 

[American Seagle]

No matter how important he is, if you can’t see how Dortmund will be able to afford the fee for a 33 year old with 1 year left on his contract then you’re being wilfully naive.

How much would Kevin De Bruyne cost? Similar age similar contract time similar production and importance.

 

[jackalbion]

Well who do you suggest to replace him (money no object)

KDH, Matt O’Riley, Szmardic, Joey Veerman, just a few names who are realistic, we have £100m in the bank and we are going to recruit from within, for replacing our best player? That seems very unambitious if you ask me. WBG played plenty last year and offered very little in terms of G/A, a good player but not the answer here. If we can’t replace him why on Earth are we selling him? Do we actually want to achieve next season? IF and I emphasise IF we are selling without replacing, then we really have squandered the opportunity to build a good platform for continued success after achieving Europa League and the sales of Caicedo and Mac Allister.

 

[WATFORD zero]

We did this last season with arguably two of the best midfielders in the league, and we finished mid table, to do this for a third and arguably more important midfielder, we will finish even lower. We can’t just rely on what we’ve already got here, there’s very few in the U21s or out on loan that are good enough to fill this role, it has to be an external replacement. This is an important window after two arguably very poor ones from a recruitment side.

But if the answer is to go out and sign Caicedo and AliMac for the money we sold them for, what's the point ? Gross is different in that I think we are thanking him for what he has done for us by letting him go.

I'm really not trying to be deliberately argumentative Jack, but buying big money replacements for players we have matured (well matured in Pascal's case) is not what we do. Sorry

*edit* Sorry but that £100m 'in the bank', totally ignoring anything outside of transfer fees, doesn't quite offset the c£400m we're in debt.

 

[American Seagle]

But if the answer is to go out and sign Caicedo and AliMac for the money we sold them for, what's the point ? Gross is different in that I think we are thanking him for what he has done for us by letting him go.

I'm really not trying to be deliberately argumentative Jack, but buying big money replacements for players we have matured (well matured in Pascal's case) is not what we do. Sorry

*edit* Sorry that £100m in the bank doesn't quite offset the c£400m we're in debt.

I don't understand this? Thanking players for what they have done? We signed them and gave them the platform and paid them handsomely. That's the thanks isn't it? It's their job to perform well. It's not like we are making them go above and beyond and not paying them well and need to thank them for that is it. What are we thanking them for that we have not thanked them for in the first place?

 

[WATFORD zero]

I don't understand this? Thanking players for what they have done? We signed them and gave them the platform and paid them handsomely. That's the thanks isn't it? It's their job to perform well.

Definitely, getting and keeping them motivated by treating them as individuals is well over rated

 

[Hugo Rune]

We did this last season with arguably two of the best midfielders in the league, and we finished mid table, to do this for a third and arguably more important midfielder, we will finish even lower. We can’t just rely on what we’ve already got here, there’s very few in the U21s or out on loan that are good enough to fill this role, it has to be an external replacement. This is an important window after two arguably very poor ones from a recruitment side.

So with Groß, Lalllana and probably Dahoud gone. Our central midfield options look like this:

Gilmour
Baleba
Milner
Moder
Hinshelwood
Buonanotte

I agree. No one in the U21s to step up and Moran and Ayari have not stepped up on loan. We’ve got the numbers but I agree, we need to bring in a couple of very good central midfielders, not ones with potential as we already have loads of those.

I think we’ll certainly see some players coming in but it’s going to cost us a lot of money.

 

[macbeth]

No one is ready to be his replacement. But someone will have to learn to be.

Buonanotte is the most similar player in style and has done the difficult first 18 months with decent results. Think he'll get his breakthrough now.

Another similar player will probably be added but we've got 40+ players expecting first team football next season, not everyone who leaves will be replaced by new players.

unsure of the point being made here. is it just that we’d probably expect buonanotte to start more games next season given he’s done a year and a half of acclimatising? yeah sure, agree 100%.

i think, however, expecting him to pick up the slack for the goals and assists groß provides would be a huge mistake. and you mention that a similar player would probably be brought in, which i would hope given that groß is one of the biggest contributors in our squad and has been for a few season

you’re right that not every departure needs to be replaced, especially as we don’t have europe this season, but pascal certainly does.

But if the answer is to go out and sign Caicedo and AliMac for the money we sold them for, what's the point ? Gross is different in that I think we are thanking him for what he has done for us by letting him go.

I'm really not trying to be deliberately argumentative Jack, but buying big money replacements for players we have matured (well matured in Pascal's case) is not what we do. Sorry

*edit* Sorry that £100m in the bank doesn't quite offset the c£400m we're in debt.

did we not offer somewhere in the range of £40M for Kudus, and for Colwill? okay not direct replacements for anyone but the suggestion that spending a decent amount to bring in quality is just arbitrarily something we won’t do is incorrect.

and we’re in debt to TB. frankly if he got into this whole football malarkey to get a return on his investment, and wants that money back, then he’s not as smart as we thought he was

 

[jackalbion]

But if the answer is to go out and sign Caicedo and AliMac for the money we sold them for, what's the point ? Gross is different in that I think we are thanking him for what he has done for us by letting him go.

I'm really not trying to be deliberately argumentative Jack, but buying big money replacements for players we have matured (well matured in Pascal's case) is not what we do. Sorry

*edit* Sorry that £100m in the bank doesn't quite offset the c£400m we're in debt.

We are not buying any of those players I’ve listed for Caicedo or Mac Allister money. Decent replacements from European leagues, Joey Veerman is not costing £100m. The club have been telling everyone how we’ve made all this profit for months, if we are £400m in debt, then all of that is pointless. I really am not bothered about how much profit we’ve made, it’s great but it means absolutely nothing to me, the football club is about 3 points on the pitch and finishing higher up the league and to have no replacement for our most important player is undoubtedly a failure. We suffered in the league last year, but did ok, with the circumstances and we will suffer even more if this happens. Without his contributions I’d like to see where we would have placed. My personal view is we shouldn’t sell him, he’s too integral to give him away for a lower price.

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

How much would Kevin De Bruyne cost? Similar age similar contract time similar production and importance.

Similar age yes, they both have a year left on their current contract and both are important players for their respective clubs. But production? I love Pascal, he’s in any conversation for our greatest ever player but we wish he had stats like KDB.

Gross has played 228 games scored 30 goals and got 45 assists.

KDB has played 260 games scored 68 and has 114 assists.

It ridiculous to think we could command anywhere near the fee that De Bruyne might fetch. Pascals worth to us has been the low fee we signed him for which we’ve recouped many many times over with what he’s done for us on the pitch.

If he wants to go back to Germany it’s only right that we find a way to make this happen, we will still probably command a fee that is at least twice to three times what we paid for him. Not every transfer fee will be eye wateringingly high, value comes in many forms. Dortmund will have no problem finding the money for Gross if it’s going to happen.

 

[jackalbion]

So with Groß, Lalllana and probably Dahoud gone. Our central midfield options look like this:

Gilmour
Baleba
Milner
Moder
Hinshelwood
Buonanotte

I agree. No one in the U21s to step up and Moran and Ayari have not stepped up on loan. We’ve got the numbers but I agree, we need to bring in a couple of very good central midfielders, not ones with potential as we already have loads of those.

I think we’ll certainly see some players coming in but it’s going to cost us a lot of money.

I certainly saw Moran as a possible replacement but it’s a shame he didn’t crack on, on loan. Baleba will be decent this season I think, he’s got great potential, but we can’t be looking at those options at being able to replace Groß’s G/A.

 

[chickens]

Baleba will (I suspect) play more this season, assuming that we play a 3-4-3 (not a given, but possible) then there’s only space for two central midfielders. Apart from Baleba and WBG, there’s Milner, Moder, Hinshelwood and Buonanotte who are natural in the centre.

That’s six players vying for two positions. I can’t see that we’ll be rushing out to buy two CMs. If we can improve the squad then we might be in for one, but really we need to move at least one of our six on to make room for them, we’re overstocked.

Edit: and I forgot Dahoud - that’s seven.

 

[WATFORD zero]

We are not buying any of those players I’ve listed for Caicedo or Mac Allister money. Decent replacements from European leagues, Joey Veerman is not costing £100m. The club have been telling everyone how we’ve made all this profit for months, if we are £400m in debt, then all of that is pointless. I really am not bothered about how much profit we’ve made, it’s great but it means absolutely nothing to me, the football club is about 3 points on the pitch and finishing higher up the league and to have no replacement for our most important player is undoubtedly a failure. We suffered in the league last year, but did ok, with the circumstances and we will suffer even more if this happens. Without his contributions I’d like to see where we would have placed. My personal view is we shouldn’t sell him, he’s too integral to give him away for a lower price.

I certainly don't want to sell him, but it's really not about the fee (which may have been agreed when Pascal signed his last extension), it's the fact that Pascal wants to go. I'm certainly hoping we sign at least a couple of first team regulars this summer (incl strengthening midfield) but don't think we will get a Pascal replacement.

I have noticed that in all his time here, he has always driven left hand drive cars with German plates, so it was always a matter of time

 

[AZ Gull]

WBG and Buonanotte are not the answer to this problem. We can’t just sit around and replace from within, we need to recruit. We can kiss goodbye to any chance of Europa League if we don’t recruit at least a decent replacement. Sitting around going oh he’s too good to replacement is ridiculous.

In all honesty I'm expecting a transitional season in 2024-25, for many reasons. I can't see us being anywhere near qualifying for Europe. I'd be very pleasantly surprised if we finished top half.

 

[American Seagle]

Similar age yes, they both have a year left on their current contract and both are important players for their respective clubs. But production? I love Pascal, he’s in any conversation for our greatest ever player but we wish he had stats like KDB.

Gross has played 228 games scored 30 goals and got 45 assists.

KDB has played 260 games scored 68 and has 114 assists.

It ridiculous to think we could command anywhere near the fee that De Bruyne might fetch. Pascals worth to us has been the low fee we signed him for which we’ve recouped many many times over with what he’s done for us on the pitch.

If he wants to go back to Germany it’s only right that we find a way to make this happen, we will still probably command a fee that is at least twice to three times what we paid for him. Not every transfer fee will be eye wateringingly high, value comes in many forms. Dortmund will have no problem finding the money for Gross if it’s going to happen.

Only two players created more chances than Gross. Neither are Kevin De Bruyne. They are Fernades and Odegard.

 

[Gabbiano]

I've said for a while that Baleba-Gilmour has the potential to be a hell of a midfield duo, they each account for the others weaknesses and bring something unique to the table.

Problem is that neither of them is consistent enough to perform week in week out.

By the end of 24-25 hopefully they will be. But rumours also that we are after Wieffer from Feyenoord which would be a statement.

 

[jackalbion]

I certainly don't want to sell him, but it's really not about the fee (which may have been agreed when Pascal signed his last extension), it's the fact that Pascal wants to go. I'm certainly hoping we sign at least a couple of first team regulars this summer (incl strengthening midfield) but don't think we will get a Pascal replacement.

I have noticed that in all his time here, he has always driven left hand drive cars with German plates, so it was always a matter of time

Of course if he wants to go that’s fine, but then he shouldn’t have signed a deal that lasted as long, if he was going on a free that would be fine. But we can’t bend over and lose important players just to be nice.

 

[Gabbiano]

Only two players created more chances than Gross. Neither are Kevin De Bruyne. They are Fernades and Odegard.

De Bruyne was injured half the season, is a world class player, and has performed on the biggest stages (UCL finals and international tournaments) for years consistently. Although now on the decline there were several years that he was arguably the best midfielder in the world.

As much as we love Gross, come on now.