[Misc] Parking Ticket- Not Displaying Resident Permit

[Eeyore]

Okay so..

I have a residents permit for the area of Brighton I live. It's in date and all that.

It was sellotaped to my screen as the original thingy tore when I went to put it on.

I hardly ever use my car and early this morning came out to a ticket from a couple of days back. Basically the permit has fallen off and on the floor.

The quote is 'failure to display'.

Anyone have experience of this ? Seems rather harsh to go charging folk for an unfortunate circumstance when they are legally parked.

My defence would be Paragraph 85 from the Secretary of State’s Statutory Guidance to Local Authorities:

An authority has a discretionary power to cancel a PCN at any point throughout the CPE process. It can do this even when an undoubted contravention has occurred if the authority deems it to be appropriate in the circumstances of the case. Under general principles of public law, authorities have a duty to act fairly and proportionately and are encouraged to exercise discretion sensibly and reasonably and with due regard to the public interest

Thoughts, oh wise ones ?

 

[Drebin]

This happened to me many moons ago when I lived in Southampton.

Almost always the same warden walked past my car (parked in the same space) every day for a year, saw that I had a residents permit and carried on by.
The day the adhesive suddenly gave up and the permit fell down onto the floor there was a not unsubstantial fine waiting for me.

Unfortunately ‘not displayed properly’ means exactly that according to the council.

It’s worth a go asking but I had to suck it up, pay the fine and buy myself a new permit holder.

 

[BNthree]

Appeal. If you've genuinely got a permit and it was a mistake they'll let you off for the first time.

 

[Justice]

Shut up man it’s transfer dead line day

 

[Hugo Rune]

Appeal. If you've genuinely got a permit and it was a mistake they'll let you off for the first time.

This.

Just had an appeal accepted after parking in a resident bay (and buying a ticket) because the sign was covered up with scaffolding.

 

[Saltydog]

This is just an excuse to be mean and squeeze extra money from people. With all of the modern technology available how come they can’t use a digital device based on the vehicle registration to validate entitlement to park?

 

[Eeyore]

The irony being that in June last year I still had an out of date parking disc displaying (hadn't put the new one in). The wardens take one look at the disc and walk off satisfied ....

 

[bha100]

The irony being that in June last year I still had an out of date parking disc displaying (hadn't put the new one in). The wardens take one look at the disc and walk off satisfied ....

You're not allowed to refer to them as wardens, they are civil enforcement officer's

 

[Official Old Man]

Did you need your car to go and pick Macallister up from the airport?
No, then wait until Monday to start this thread please.

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

This is just an excuse to be mean and squeeze extra money from people. With all of the modern technology available how come they can’t use a digital device based on the vehicle registration to validate entitlement to park?

It's odd though, when Civil Enforcement Officers ignore Mum's dropping the kids off, or old Ma Smith just parking for five minutes to pop into the post office people jump around saying they're not doing their job .... if the regulations state you should display then those are the rules, surely, we can't pick and choose when we want laws applied and when we don't.

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

Appeal. If you've genuinely got a permit and it was a mistake they'll let you off for the first time.

This is correct. [emoji106]

 

[LadySeagull]

It's odd though, when Civil Enforcement Officers ignore Mum's dropping the kids off, or old Ma Smith just parking for five minutes to pop into the post office people jump around saying they're not doing their job .... if the regulations state you should display then those are the rules, surely, we can't pick and choose when we want laws applied and when we don't.

Those are not the rules though, or at least there are grace periods, exemptions, and Local Authority policies about cancelling PCNs as a first error.

Both of your examples - as often trotted out (sorry, but wrongly) by many people who think you can't stop on a yellow line or in a bay for a few minutes - can be exempt activity if it's temporary for a few mins, even on double yellows. Certainly dropping off children and assisting them into premises - like school - is exempt (so, the message is, leave parents alone, they are allowed to do this!) and a Post Office trip is exempt activity as well, if it involves taking a parcel in or out.

Not displaying a permit should involve the CEO watching the car for more than 5 mins to discount the chance that the driver is fetching it. And yes, Councils will generally cancel when the permit is shown (or proof of loading/dropping off kids/blue badge or other exempt activity). Mitigation and proof of a right to park/proof of loading, or permit, can and should work with Council PCNs.

Just to add:

(a) none of the above would apply to private parking scam PCNs which are never to be paid, and appeals on mitigating circs don't work, and
(b) It's transfer deadline day and the birthday of a deceased loved one today so whilst I have other things on my mind this weekend, I will reply to those who have pm'd me recently about private scam PCNs (all stages are covered by MSE's parking forum NEWBIES thread, and you can post there if urgent because there are lots of good regular posters).

 

[B-right-on]

How is he (she) supposed to know that you have a parking permit? Look on the floor of every car illegally parked?

 

[Saltydog]

It's odd though, when Civil Enforcement Officers ignore Mum's dropping the kids off, or old Ma Smith just parking for five minutes to pop into the post office people jump around saying they're not doing their job .... if the regulations state you should display then those are the rules, surely, we can't pick and choose when we want laws applied and when we don't.

That’s not what I am saying. The OP stated that they had a valid permit to park which was on display. However it unfortunately became dislodged and slipped out of a clear line of vision.

My point is that by using technology, permits could be associated with the vehicle number plate negating the requirement to display a physical permit. (No dodgy sellotape required!).

 

[Wrong-Direction]

They should use discretion but like normal, they wont.

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

 

[Eeyore]

Okay, so it takes an odd turn.

I go to the council site to lodge an appeal. When I put the details in it informs me that the case is closed.

It also occurs to me that there may have been another occasion when I didn't have it in the screen. This may have lasted for a period of days as I hardly use the car. No ticket was ever issued. This despite the officers going round every day.

I do wonder if the hand held terminals tell them if someone has a permit.

I'll call them Monday. But, as it stands, it looks like it has been closed their end without appeal.

The permit is now firmly stuck in the window.

 

[dejavuatbtn]

What I don’t get is that you can park paperless using the PayByPhone app but if you have a resident’s permit they don’t have it registered on their systems. Seems like another way of the council diddling their most important customers - their council tax payers.

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

What I don’t get is that you can park paperless using the PayByPhone app but if you have a resident’s permit they don’t have it registered on their systems. Seems like another way of the council diddling their most important customers - their council tax payers.

I think they do know you have a valid permit- they check on their machine. The penalty is not due to not having a permit, it’s not displaying it that’s the crime.

I guess the physical permits just make it quicker for them to check, rather than having to enter every reg into their machine.

So they need to ‘encourage’ you to display the permit to make the whole thing work.

 

[dejavuatbtn]

I think they do know you have a valid permit- they check on their machine. The penalty is not due to not having a permit, it’s not displaying it that’s the crime.

I guess the physical permits just make it quicker for them to check, rather than having to enter every reg into their machine.

So they need to ‘encourage’ you to display the permit to make the whole thing work.

So they don’t really need to issue a permit - they just need to collect the money and record it. It’s greener. But hey, we live in Brighton, the most ungreen council in the land.

 

[LadySeagull]

How is he (she) supposed to know that you have a parking permit? Look on the floor of every car illegally parked?

No, and it is correct that a CEO who doesn't see a permit (or, say a blue badge in a disabled bay) issues a PCN.

The point I am making is, ''issuing a PCN'' doesn't mean the charge has to be paid or won't be later cancelled, due to standard policy. So the CEO is right. But appealing it is also right, to resolve it without paying.

Most Council PCNs can be cancelled. They just make you think they can't, by refusing first appeals in many cases and offering a 'discount'.

I've helped with maybe 20 Councils ones and appealed one of my own (forget to open the Blue Badge up for my relative!) and I won the 18 I appealed, and told the other two to pay at the discount. So only two out of approx 20 so far, looked like there was no ''out'' due to clear/nearby signs re a suspended bay.

Never lost any that I've appealed, including red routes and yellow box junctions in London.

What you don't do, is:

(a) appeal then pay full whack in a panic, due to misunderstanding that appealing to an adjudicator adds nothing more to the penalty.
(b) ignore them