One for the egg-chasing fans

[Tooting Gull]

Can anyone offer a good explanation/reason for the edict that rules out any England player playing overseas from selection for the national team?

From the outside it just seems bonkers and small-time.

Some of the reasons advanced I do not regard as good in any way - 'harder to monitor them in France', come on, it's an hour on a plane, you have a phone, and all the games are accessible on TV or streams.

If you have good players, why shouldn't they go and earn the best money, and why on earth would you want to deprive yourself of them?

Not sure it would have had any bearing on this particular World Cup, but it just seems mad.

 

[Hillian1]

I believe it's because the RFU have imposed a salary cap, by going abroad they are sticking two fingers up at them.

This could however be bollox.

 

[KZNSeagull]

I think the same applies to South Africans playing abroad.

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

This article from the BBC explains it quite well. Seems to be about ensuring the best players stay in England, although it does seem to be a policy that has slightly backfired (I say this as an outsider looking in as I don't follow rugby union that closely) as England haven't selected the last two European players of the year for the World Cup.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32626996

I think the same applies to South Africans playing abroad.

According to the link above New Zealand are the only other country that applies the selection policy.

 

[nwgull]

I think it's because it makes it easier manage the players for squad training, as I assume it's easier to get buy-in from an English club to rest a player and/or release them when required for training.

Same applies to NZ players I believe.

 

[Eeyore]

Basically they are trying to keep the Premiership strong. And hoping that will filter down to grass roots.

The problem for English clubs is the salary cap. Unless you are Saracens (edit: my lawyers have told me to mention that I'm only joking on that bit. )

The French salary cap is higher, hence more European success and attractiveness.

The problem is that if the cap is raised then the scenario we see at the top of football is the likely outcome, as well as clubs going bust chasing the dream.

 

[KZNSeagull]

This article from the BBC explains it quite well. Seems to be about ensuring the best players stay in England, although it does seem to be a policy that has slightly backfired (I say this as an outsider looking in as I don't follow rugby union that closely) as England haven't selected the last two European players of the year for the World Cup.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32626996



According to the link above New Zealand are the only other country that applies the selection policy.

Thanks. They must have relaxed it then as I am pretty sure they did have that policy at some point. But I do not really pay attention to SA Rugby, I have to say.

 

[Eeyore]

I think it's because it makes it easier manage the players for squad training, as I assume it's easier to get buy-in from an English club to rest a player and/or release them when required for training.

Same applies to NZ players I believe.

It's not normally a problem to get players released as Rugby has set international periods (Autumn Internationals & Six Nations). There is talk of corolating the Northern and Southern Hemisphere seasons, but I think that's a long way off.

 

[KZNSeagull]

It does seem a bit potty when you consider that the last 2 European Players of the Year are both Englishmen playing in France. It does seem that there is a lot of support for this rule within the game though.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

The rule does at least save the very best English players from the embarrassment of being associated with the English national rugby team.

 

[Tooting Gull]

The rule does at least save the very best English players from the embarrassment of being associated with the English national rugby team.

Very good. What are Steffon Armitage and Nick Abendanon thinking, while their stock has soared even further from not being there.

 

[Tooting Gull]

It seems from the above replies and other stuff I've read that basically they are just doing what the English clubs say.

But they would say that, wouldn't they? This rule emotionally blackmails players over their patriotism, and helps English clubs get top players for below the world market rate. They are never going to offer to change it, someone else who can see a bigger picture (ie not pure self-interest) would have to do it for them.

 

[Yoda]

It seems from the above replies and other stuff I've read that basically they are just doing what the English clubs say.

But they would say that, wouldn't they? This rule emotionally blackmails players over their patriotism, and helps English clubs get top players for below the world market rate. They are never going to offer to change it, someone else who can see a bigger picture (ie not pure self-interest) would have to do it for them.

But if the Premiership can't attract the best of the best, say like France, then there is no point as they won't improve beyond a certain level.

 

[Eeyore]

Very good. What are Steffon Armitage and Nick Abendanon thinking, while their stock has soared even further from not being there.

I don't think Abendanon would have been a first choice wing\back. Armitage would have been useful.

 

[Eeyore]

But if the Premiership can't attract the best of the best, say like France, then there is no point as they won't improve beyond a certain level.

The hope is placed in the various academies, and the financial incentives for playing home grown players.

Harlequins have done well here, often 19 of their matchday 22 are English.

Attracting the best coaches is the key here.

 

[Tooting Gull]

Driving to work just heard a long debate on Five Live on precisely this issue.

Clermont's Abendanon was very good and strong on it, as you'd expect, but not with any bitterness, just factual. As was suggested earlier, he's been out of the picture for a while and so never seriously thought he'd play at World Cup. But he did think Armitage should have played.

He couldn't understand how you wouldn't give yourself every/the best chance to win a World Cup; called the policy "criminal"; reckoned Lancaster probably had his hands tied by RFU/clubs but should have been stronger and insisted, like Michael Cheika; and stated that is plain wrong that anyone could be threatened with never playing for their country simply for wanting to improve their game and experience a different rugby and life culture.

All that said he doesn't expect rule to change as that would require humble pie being eaten by RFU and clubs - not their strong suit.

 

[GT49er]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32626996

According to the link above New Zealand are the only other country that applies the selection policy.

Doesn't seem to do NZ much harm!

Not a new idea, anyway - I seem to remember the Scottish FA have tried to do something similar in the past.

 

[The Birdman]

Jonny Wilkenson went abroad to earn a few extra € a shame they are worth less now.