Official Running Thread

[Artie Fufkin]

hi guys, just to follow up from yesterday's borefest from me about the physiological benefits of easy running I just thought I'd share this new episode "The Science of Perfect Training" from Professor Ross Tucker's podcast The Real Science of Sport.

As a fully fledged running nerd always trying to learn as much as I can about the sports science behind running his podcast is great and I think this particular episode is excellent.

It's quite a long listen but I definitely recommend checking it out - https://twitter.com/Scienceofsport/status/1233273374228598784

He talks about the fundamentals of training to improve endurance through physiological adaptation, the popular 80/20 effort weekly rule, the benefits of consistency through time spent running (not speed), each run should have a purpose, and the importance of polarised training (as [MENTION=27279]dazzer6666[/MENTION] mentioned yesterday - keep your easy effort days easy so that your hard effort days are hard).

The only thing he doesn't touch on in this episode but it will be on the next episode is the importance of sleep, rest & recovery, which is a key priority for good training. It might sound weird but the improvements don't happen when we're actually running. The improvements happen when we're resting, recovering and mostly when we're sleeping. That is when the body is doing it's magic absorbing the load and stress from the recent activity and producing the adaptations.

 

[Bozza]

hi guys, just to follow up from yesterday's borefest from me about the physiological benefits of easy running I just thought I'd share this new episode "The Science of Perfect Training" from Professor Ross Tucker's podcast The Real Science of Sport.

As a fully fledged running nerd always trying to learn as much as I can about the sports science behind running his podcast is great and I think this particular episode is excellent.

It's quite a long listen but I definitely recommend checking it out - https://twitter.com/Scienceofsport/status/1233273374228598784

He talks about the fundamentals of training to improve endurance through physiological adaptation, the popular 80/20 effort weekly rule, the benefits of consistency through time spent running (not speed), each run should have a purpose, and the importance of polarised training (as [MENTION=27279]dazzer6666[/MENTION] mentioned yesterday - keep your easy effort days easy so that your hard effort days are hard).

The only thing he doesn't touch on in this episode but it will be on the next episode is the importance of sleep, rest & recovery, which is a key priority for good training. It might sound weird but the improvements don't happen when we're actually running. The improvements happen when we're resting, recovering and mostly when we're sleeping. That is when the body is doing it's magic absorbing the load and stress from the recent activity and producing the adaptations.

Thanks - I will check it out and I should have thanked you yesterday for the other details you shared.

What I don't get is how you progress from this easy stuff to your ludicrous speeds.

Via Instagram, where I engage with other runners, I see plenty training for marathons running 10+ minute miles and lots of them. They're not going to rock up at their marathon and turn on the afterburners and hit 7:00 pace for 26+ miles.

I guess the question is how does your "going for it" pace improve on the foundations of zillions of easy-paced miles?

 

[Badger]

hi guys, just to follow up from yesterday's borefest from me about the physiological benefits of easy running I just thought I'd share this new episode "The Science of Perfect Training" from Professor Ross Tucker's podcast The Real Science of Sport.

As a fully fledged running nerd always trying to learn as much as I can about the sports science behind running his podcast is great and I think this particular episode is excellent.

It's quite a long listen but I definitely recommend checking it out - https://twitter.com/Scienceofsport/status/1233273374228598784

He talks about the fundamentals of training to improve endurance through physiological adaptation, the popular 80/20 effort weekly rule, the benefits of consistency through time spent running (not speed), each run should have a purpose, and the importance of polarised training (as [MENTION=27279]dazzer6666[/MENTION] mentioned yesterday - keep your easy effort days easy so that your hard effort days are hard).

The only thing he doesn't touch on in this episode but it will be on the next episode is the importance of sleep, rest & recovery, which is a key priority for good training. It might sound weird but the improvements don't happen when we're actually running. The improvements happen when we're resting, recovering and mostly when we're sleeping. That is when the body is doing it's magic absorbing the load and stress from the recent activity and producing the adaptations.

Interesting, I might have a listen to that later.

Your point about rest and recovery is definitely something I've made sure I keep up with. Last week was the first really tough week I've had in my training, increasing the distance covered and I was also on holiday most of the week which meant a lot of time on my feet (I don't do beach holidays) so I felt like I wasn't quite getting the recovery in. I did my long run on Saturday which felt tough but it's meant I've had 2 full days without running to recover ready for this week's running. I feel ready to go again tonight.

If your body is telling you it needs rest, then let it have rest. I can never understand people who go on these run streaks and never take a day off.

I find the the 3 week taper at the end of marathon training is possibly the most important key to having a good race. I take it very easy, especially in the last 2 weeks. In both of my last 2 marathons it's been 2 or 3 days before the race when my body has finally stopped feeling tired from the training.

 

[Badger]

Thanks - I will check it out and I should have thanked you yesterday for the other details you shared.

What I don't get is how you progress from this easy stuff to your ludicrous speeds.

Via Instagram, where I engage with other runners, I see plenty training for marathons running 10+ minute miles and lots of them. They're not going to rock up at their marathon and turn on the afterburners and hit 7:00 pace for 26+ miles.

I guess the question is how does your "going for it" pace improve on the foundations of zillions of easy-paced miles?

For me, it's all about really going for it in the workout runs. I'll do a really hard workout run once a week, either hill reps, 800m sprints, or a tempo run (increasing speed from a fairly fast start). I'm always pushing the pace as much as a can during these runs.

I also try and throw in some "race pace" miles during a long run. I'll usually do this towards the end if my legs are feeling good.

The psychology of it is a funny thing. As soon as you're in a race, you suddenly find you can keep up a pace you didn't think was possible. I guess a lot of it is to do with having other people around to pace with and the support of the crowd.

As I mentioned in my previous post, having a good taper and being well rested for race day makes a difference too. You're often doing the long slow training runs on tired legs. On race day you should be in peak condition, so you get that extra pace in your legs from the start.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

hi guys, just to follow up from yesterday's borefest from me about the physiological benefits of easy running I just thought I'd share this new episode "The Science of Perfect Training" from Professor Ross Tucker's podcast The Real Science of Sport.

As a fully fledged running nerd always trying to learn as much as I can about the sports science behind running his podcast is great and I think this particular episode is excellent.

It's quite a long listen but I definitely recommend checking it out - https://twitter.com/Scienceofsport/status/1233273374228598784

He talks about the fundamentals of training to improve endurance through physiological adaptation, the popular 80/20 effort weekly rule, the benefits of consistency through time spent running (not speed), each run should have a purpose, and the importance of polarised training (as [MENTION=27279]dazzer6666[/MENTION] mentioned yesterday - keep your easy effort days easy so that your hard effort days are hard).

The only thing he doesn't touch on in this episode but it will be on the next episode is the importance of sleep, rest & recovery, which is a key priority for good training. It might sound weird but the improvements don't happen when we're actually running. The improvements happen when we're resting, recovering and mostly when we're sleeping. That is when the body is doing it's magic absorbing the load and stress from the recent activity and producing the adaptations.

Honestly - I can't agree more. I've done very little more than ramp up my milage but at slower tempo and it's not doing me any harm. The only thing I'm really lacking is events other than parkrun (with the exception of the Bedgebury 10 miler) which back up the success. Sometimes it's tough to avoid the inevitable desire to copy someone's effort on Strava, but you have to ignore that little voice at times.

 

[Artie Fufkin]

Thanks - I will check it out and I should have thanked you yesterday for the other details you shared.

What I don't get is how you progress from this easy stuff to your ludicrous speeds.

Via Instagram, where I engage with other runners, I see plenty training for marathons running 10+ minute miles and lots of them. They're not going to rock up at their marathon and turn on the afterburners and hit 7:00 pace for 26+ miles.

I guess the question is how does your "going for it" pace improve on the foundations of zillions of easy-paced miles?

Cool Bozza. It's quite a long listen but I recommend sticking with it as there's some very good nuggets of useful insight to optimising training.

Over the last few years I have focused on building my aerobic base through consistent time spent running to improve my endurance (building the biggest "aerobic" house I can). But to achieve the physiological gains through consistent time spent running (frequency & volume) I had to slow down to give me the best possible chance of safely absorbing and adapting to the consistent load and stress (not get injured).

I believe over time improving my aerobic engine through consistent time spent running, mostly at an easy pace, and incorporating a sprinkle hard effort workouts or "quality days" (intervals, lactate threshold runs, long runs) eg. polarised training, I'm conditioning myself to be able to run faster for longer = endurance.

It's a game of patience as improvements happen over time.

 

[knocky1]

hi guys, just to follow up from yesterday's borefest from me about the physiological benefits of easy running I just thought I'd share this new episode "The Science of Perfect Training" from Professor Ross Tucker's podcast The Real Science of Sport.

As a fully fledged running nerd always trying to learn as much as I can about the sports science behind running his podcast is great and I think this particular episode is excellent.

It's quite a long listen but I definitely recommend checking it out - https://twitter.com/Scienceofsport/status/1233273374228598784

He talks about the fundamentals of training to improve endurance through physiological adaptation, the popular 80/20 effort weekly rule, the benefits of consistency through time spent running (not speed), each run should have a purpose, and the importance of polarised training (as [MENTION=27279]dazzer6666[/MENTION] mentioned yesterday - keep your easy effort days easy so that your hard effort days are hard).

The only thing he doesn't touch on in this episode but it will be on the next episode is the importance of sleep, rest & recovery, which is a key priority for good training. It might sound weird but the improvements don't happen when we're actually running. The improvements happen when we're resting, recovering and mostly when we're sleeping. That is when the body is doing it's magic absorbing the load and stress from the recent activity and producing the adaptations.

10 years of triathlons prepared me well for endurance training. It is a strong part of my training and unfortunately age has made it slightly higher than 80/20. I have complete faith in it and have confidence that I can use the accelerater for any race up to Half Marathon. 10" miles training will give me a 21:30 5K and a couple of speedwork sessions will dip it under 21:00.

Later on this summer with a step up in intensity I hope all this training will pay off with a 6" mile at Withdean, a 13"ish 3K and with the vaporfly a sub 20:30 5K.

Finally I analysed your planned marathon time of sub 2:45:00 to mine of 4:00:05 and there is a 3" a mile pace difference. My long runs mine should be 3" a mile slower than yours and if anything my 9:50 pace is a bit fast!

 

[Artie Fufkin]

Interesting, I might have a listen to that later.

Your point about rest and recovery is definitely something I've made sure I keep up with. Last week was the first really tough week I've had in my training, increasing the distance covered and I was also on holiday most of the week which meant a lot of time on my feet (I don't do beach holidays) so I felt like I wasn't quite getting the recovery in. I did my long run on Saturday which felt tough but it's meant I've had 2 full days without running to recover ready for this week's running. I feel ready to go again tonight.

If your body is telling you it needs rest, then let it have rest. I can never understand people who go on these run streaks and never take a day off.

I find the the 3 week taper at the end of marathon training is possibly the most important key to having a good race. I take it very easy, especially in the last 2 weeks. In both of my last 2 marathons it's been 2 or 3 days before the race when my body has finally stopped feeling tired from the training.

Definitely Badger! I think we would all improve if we prioritise rest and recovery as a key part of our running. It's very hard though as running is the fun bit. However I think it's just as important as the running itself as that is when you give the body the time it needs to absorb and adapt to the activity which will lead to the improvements. Look after the body and the body will look after the running.

 

[Artie Fufkin]

Honestly - I can't agree more. I've done very little more than ramp up my milage but at slower tempo and it's not doing me any harm. The only thing I'm really lacking is events other than parkrun (with the exception of the Bedgebury 10 miler) which back up the success. Sometimes it's tough to avoid the inevitable desire to copy someone's effort on Strava, but you have to ignore that little voice at times.

Nice Ninja! Gradually building up some consistent volume through frequency and time spent running at a reduced stress level (easy pace) will bring major gains over time. When we're bopping along at a conversational pace our cardiovascular system is loving it, and without the risk of putting too much stress on our muscular skeletal system so that we can maintain consistency. Big benefits, less risk.

I think parkruns are perfect for a scheduled hard effort in the week and the easy efforts in the week will mean you're comfortable to go hard on your hard effort days. Definitely no need to try to match what others are getting up to.

Just also to add I think it's important to periodize training. I'm not "on it" every week of the year all year round. I'd break down. I think it's important to dial things right back and have off season periods here and there when I'm just running for fun.

 

[Artie Fufkin]

10 years of triathlons prepared me well for endurance training. It is a strong part of my training and unfortunately age has made it slightly higher than 80/20. I have complete faith in it and have confidence that I can use the accelerater for any race up to Half Marathon. 10" miles training will give me a 21:30 5K and a couple of speedwork sessions will dip it under 21:00.

Later on this summer with a step up in intensity I hope all this training will pay off with a 6" mile at Withdean, a 13"ish 3K and with the vaporfly a sub 20:30 5K.

Finally I analysed your planned marathon time of sub 2:45:00 to mine of 4:00:05 and there is a 3" a mile pace difference. My long runs mine should be 3" a mile slower than yours and if anything my 9:50 pace is a bit fast!

Definitely Gaffer! Your running history in varied disciplines shows a great example of the big benefits gained from getting physiologically conditioned in endurance over time.

 

[knocky1]

Definitely Gaffer! Your running history in varied disciplines shows a great example of the big benefits gained from getting physiologically conditioned in endurance over time.

Thanks coach. I’ll try and deliver this summer.
Going to have my first runout in my next0% Vaporfly tomorrow. A few strides and pace variations will be on the menu to see how they perform. Not sustained effort with the club race at Bevendean Parkrun on Saturday.

Apologies for being awake beyond my bedtime....

 

[Bozza]

If your body is telling you it needs rest, then let it have rest. I can never understand people who go on these run streaks and never take a day off.

I know I'm atypical from most on here, but we're not all in running for the same reasons.

I do it as I enjoy getting outside, and for general physical/mental well-being. As such, if I can run on any given day I will. Today was my 33rd straight day of running.

If I feel my body needs rest, I will rest it and that will mean plodding out a slow mile. With dog walking, my legs average 11-12 miles / 20,000 steps per day, each and every day, so I don't think a ploddy mile is ramping up the stress to any great degree.

If I was following some sort of plan to run a race and wanted to achieve my best possible performance in that race then I'm sure I'd follow the same sort of plan as all you serious racing sorts do!

 

[Ninja Elephant]

Amazing streak, [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION]! Totally against what works for me, but horses for courses and as you say, very different motivation.

My only concern about focusing on easier runs for longer periods of time is that when it comes to raceday, especially over 20 miles (sunday) and then the marathon in April, is whether I'll be able to sustain the higher pace for such a long period of time - but I'm confident I will be able to step up in the right conditions. This time last year I was running no slower than 8 minutes per mile as an average to feel primed. I was really confident I'd be able to sustain a high pace on the day but I started to fall apart at mile 20. 7:09 was my slowest mile until then, before 7:11, 7:11, 7:28, 8:07, 8:30, 8:52 and 8:45 in the final 7 miles.

I'm confident generally that I'll be able to fly through the finish line in sub-3 this time.

 

[Badger]

I know I'm atypical from most on here, but we're not all in running for the same reasons.

I do it as I enjoy getting outside, and for general physical/mental well-being. As such, if I can run on any given day I will. Today was my 33rd straight day of running.

If I feel my body needs rest, I will rest it and that will mean plodding out a slow mile. With dog walking, my legs average 11-12 miles / 20,000 steps per day, each and every day, so I don't think a ploddy mile is ramping up the stress to any great degree.

If I was following some sort of plan to run a race and wanted to achieve my best possible performance in that race then I'm sure I'd follow the same sort of plan as all you serious racing sorts do!

Oh yes, that's totally fine. I was more talking about people who run every single day when they're training for a race. That's when rest days are really important.

It sounds like you're doing all the right things for your own reasons to run.

One day you'll sign up for a race though...

 

[knocky1]

Thanks coach. I’ll try and deliver this summer.
Going to have my first runout in my next0% Vaporfly A few strides and pace variations will be on the menu to see how they perform. Not sustained effort with the club race at Bevendean Parkrun on Saturday.

.

It's raining! I thought it was dry all week.

 

[Bozza]

It's raining! I thought it was dry all week.

Yeah - looking out the window thinking the same thing.

Accuweather right now reporting both:

- Precipitation chance right now of 0%
- It will continue to rain for the next 91 minutes

 

[knocky1]

Just got a waiting list relay place in The Moyleman for the 15th March. Looking forward to revisiting after the Beast from the East with [MENTION=24635]Greg Bobkin[/MENTION] even if only doing half of it.
Running with Arena woman and don't know which leg I'm doing yet. Anyone else going to be there?

 

[Ninja Elephant]

I can confirm it is definitely raining outside! I ran a nice route taking in The Level, Brighton station, Hove Park recreation ground, St Anns' Gardens, Palmeira Square, Adelaide Crescent and then popping along the promenade back to Brighton Pier. A wonderfully measured 7 mile route in 9 minutes per mile almost exactly. I then got back to the office and our gym has run out of towels. Luckily, I have a wet weather bag stored here and I have a towel in there, so I was fine - but the other poor sods popping in for a nice session have no towel to use after a nice shower. Amateur hour!

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Just got a waiting list relay place in The Moyleman for the 15th March. Looking forward to revisiting after the Beast from the East with [MENTION=24635]Greg Bobkin[/MENTION] even if only doing half of it.
Running with Arena woman and don't know which leg I'm doing yet. Anyone else going to be there?

Not me, sadly. Had a year off this year, but it remains my favourite race. I'll deffo be back next year (remembering it sells out ridiculously quickly these days). Fair to say the conditions will be *slightly* better than they were in 2018

When you say you don't know which leg you're doing, do you get a choice? If so, go for the first half – it's so much easier. Enjoy

 

[dazzer6666]

I can confirm it is definitely raining outside! I ran a nice route taking in The Level, Brighton station, Hove Park recreation ground, St Anns' Gardens, Palmeira Square, Adelaide Crescent and then popping along the promenade back to Brighton Pier. A wonderfully measured 7 mile route in 9 minutes per mile almost exactly. I then got back to the office and our gym has run out of towels. Luckily, I have a wet weather bag stored here and I have a towel in there, so I was fine - but the other poor sods popping in for a nice session have no towel to use after a nice shower. Amateur hour!

Just done an hour or so of a plod in London. Perfect conditions, dry and not much breeze beside the river today, and a bit chilly.

Edit, just started raining #timing [emoji23][emoji106]