Official Running Thread

[Guinness Boy]

A little off topic but spent a long weekend in Bovec, Slovenia this weekend just gone with a bunch of guys for a friend of a friend's 40th. No running but plenty of exercise with kayaking on the Friday and canyoning (basically jumping, sliding, abseiling and being lowered on ropes down a 180 metre water descent) and a monster scooter race on the Saturday. Those who know me will be amazed to know I survived, though with kayaking it was a case of "only just" . Then on the Sunday we got a cable car 2000 metres up a mountain and walked up to the summit from there and down to the Italian border. Brooks trainers are not the weapon of choice for a scree scramble that high up, let me tell you. The four more adventurous of my friends then embarked on a 14 mile hike round the side of another mountain and down fairly perilous terrain back to the village. The remaining 6 sensible ones climbed back to the summit, had a coffee at the summit restaurant where the locals were walking dogs and small children (!) and got the cable car halfway down for an easier 10k walk. Still totally buggerd my quads and I have DOMS today after walking to a fort yesterday morning before our flight.

Anyway, the point of positng here was also that Saturday saw the running of the Bovec Marathon. Obviously we were otherwise enganged but I cannot imagine a more beautiful course, constantly under the hug of the Julian Alps and regularly crossing the Soca River. It must have been one tough mother as it was 27c in the shade (of which there was none) and, though much was in the valley, there was obviously some elevation involved.

Afterwards there is a huge kids mini mile with the adults running to "encourage" them and then the whole town has a massive festival, eating streetfood, dancing to accordian music (including the Birdie Song) and getting as wasted as it's possible to get. Anyone who has helped out in any way. including the staff at the Thunder River craft beer bar where we were stationed, gets a luminous green "Bovec Maraton" t-shirt.

The winner of the whole marathon was on the table behind us in the craft beer place. He won in 2hrs 52 (some idea of the standard and brutality) and won a trophy and a comedy black sheep (photo below - also a snap of what a mountain summit border looks like in 27 degree heat when you have a hangover and have been dancing to accordian music the night before). The guy in the orange t-shirt is not the winner - the beer and fags belong to him.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

I would love to know how that is even possible. Did you have matching bikes? I hope it wasn't a target event for the other athlete!

It was just a crazy moment. I'd even taken a mental note of when I parked my bike, but I was so hyped after the (5k) run I was out of it. Not only did I ride off on the lady's bike but I also put her helmet on. Both fitted nicely! When I realised what I'd done I got back to transition and, as she was a bit behind me on the run, I don't think she lost much time. I then located my own bike and (not being disqualified) re-joined the race and overtook her with the most sheepish smile on my face that I could manage.
I was so cross with myself that I never did another duathlon again!

 

[Ninja Elephant]

[MENTION=616]Guinness Boy[/MENTION] - marvellous adventures, I'm always jealous of people who go somewhere exotic. I wish I'd developed the interest much sooner, but it means that when I do get to explore, I'll enjoy it all the more for missing out all these years. I'll definitely plan my visits to places around running events, just as a happy deliberate accident!

 

[Artie Fufkin]

A nice start to the week for me. As I was on my way into work this morning an email popped up saying I've been accepted into the 2020 Boston Marathon.

I was pretty certain I was going to get in, but it's nice to finally have it confirmed.

Congratulations Badger!

 

[Guinness Boy]

[MENTION=616]Guinness Boy[/MENTION] - marvellous adventures, I'm always jealous of people who go somewhere exotic. I wish I'd developed the interest much sooner, but it means that when I do get to explore, I'll enjoy it all the more for missing out all these years. I'll definitely plan my visits to places around running events, just as a happy deliberate accident!

Cheers. It was happy accident we were there on Marathon weekend but it made it a lot more special. On a side note four of us who went have now completed a marathon (one did New Forest the week before) and another one of our friends would have come on the trip except he was busy running the same CW50 as Dazzer. He finished 9th in 8 hrs 2 mins! We're seriously looking in to trying a marathon abroad as a group, perhaps an obscure one, though obviously none of us will get near our Ultra running machine mate.

 

[Bry Nylon]

A nice start to the week for me. As I was on my way into work this morning an email popped up saying I've been accepted into the 2020 Boston Marathon.

Congratulations. Lincolnshire can be lovely if you get the weather.

 

[dazzer6666]

Cheers. It was happy accident we were there on Marathon weekend but it made it a lot more special. On a side note four of us who went have now completed a marathon (one did New Forest the week before) and another one of our friends would have come on the trip except he was busy running the same CW50 as Dazzer. He finished 9th in 8 hrs 2 mins! We're seriously looking in to trying a marathon abroad as a group, perhaps an obscure one, though obviously none of us will get near our Ultra running machine mate.

Looks like brilliant fun..........a few overseas races are on my agenda once I escape from the rat race......

8hrs is quite ridiculous for that course - comfortably under 10 min miling. The hills were, in places, at least (and in one case steeper) than most on the South Downs. He must be a close to sub 3 Marathon runner with a time like that ? The winner did 6h 34 (averaging sub 8 min miling).

 

[Artie Fufkin]

It's an interesting debate about tracking times and distances etc - a friend of mine doesn't ever want to know her pace during running and doesn't track anything so she can be in the moment. There is an argument for it, but the argument against it is clearer for me - you don't know your pace, so you can't really regulate yourself in any meaningful way. I would also be frustrated if I ran a parkrun, for example, without knowing the time and ran a second or two outside of a PB or getting under a minute barrier (18:bla instead 19:bla). In her case, she ran a 19:01 parkrun this week for the second time, having never gone sub-19. If she'd had a watch, she'd have known and surely found those couple of seconds!

That being said, I've become better at running recovery runs at a non-competitive pace and mindset, but it certainly hasn't always been the case. I feel like I've matured as a runner!

I think your friend's approach is refreshing and a real positive. I see quite a few runners get too hung up on pace and fixated on what their watch is telling them (or what other people might think) which can lead to working too hard during runs. That was me a few years ago. They train hard, get fit, get hurt, start over, train hard, get fit, get hurt, start over.

There's a time and place to time your runs if you want to (on "quality" work out days it's helpful) but it shouldn't rule over your running. I think it's far more important to run by effort and feel rather than pace. Switching the watch to the clock face to help run by feel works for me.

I would say it's important to keep a running diary or log though. Whether that's via a running app or old school calendar. It's good to have a log of your running activity to refer back to as you look to improve.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Looks like brilliant fun..........a few overseas races are on my agenda once I escape from the rat race......

8hrs is quite ridiculous for that course - comfortably under 10 min miling. The hills were, in places, at least (and in one case steeper) than most on the South Downs. He must be a close to sub 3 Marathon runner with a time like that ? The winner did 6h 34 (averaging sub 8 min miling).

3:06 is his best race Marathon, though I reckon he could probably smash that now. Has been known to run 3:15 marathons in training for Ultra races, at least according to Strava.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

I think your friend's approach is refreshing and a real positive. I see quite a few runners get too hung up on pace and fixated on what their watch is telling them (or what other people might think) which can lead to working too hard during runs. That was me a few years ago. They train hard, get fit, get hurt, start over, train hard, get fit, get hurt, start over.

There's a time and place to time your runs if you want to (on "quality" work out days it's helpful) but it shouldn't rule over your running. I think it's far more important to run by effort and feel rather than pace. Switching the watch to the clock face to help run by feel works for me.

I would say it's important to keep a running diary or log though. Whether that's via a running app or old school calendar. It's good to have a log of your running activity to refer back to as you look to improve.

I've had a similar experience as well in the past - I ran 19:04 around Hove Park one morning without a watch and ran Seaford this year in 19:40 without knowing the time. I think it's refreshing and takes some of the pressure off, but I do like to know where I am in a race. In a training run, especially an easy recovery run, it really couldn't matter less and I have it more for info and to track the milage than any other purpose. I think I've got the balance right between wanting to train at certain paces in preparation for Leicester, and being able to enjoy the run.

I'll be pleased to get Leicester out of the way though - I can lower the milage and focus on trying to get under 39:00 for a 10k, and going sub-18 over a 5k for the first time. I blew off a pace session today because my knees and right hip were feeling a bit sore this morning after the weekend's antics - I'm running Darlington's parkrun on saturday which is pretty flat and quick, bar a short and sharp hill you run twice. It seems to be accurately measured - so I'll be giving it a good go!

 

[Bozza]

I think I "get" the timing thing, but I also very much don't get the timing thing.

I run for me, to get outside, to see stuff, to clear my head and to, without it sounding like a load of mumbo jumbo bollocks, just feel alive.

I don't think I've ever driven or travelled anywhere to run. I start where I am (generally at home, or a hotel/AirBnB if away) and run from there and back. I've not entered a single race (other than the fun Disney Castaway Cay thing I mentioned a few pages back) and I don't have a single Park Run to my name.

Most of my runs now are with the dog over the Downs where timing is an absolute irrelevance particularly because I have to stop for any number of reasons at any time at all - almost certainly because he's taking a dump and I need to clear it up, but also to put him on the lead/take him off the lead at various points. I was out with him just now and he was limping. A stop and check revealed he had a thorn in a pad I needed to sort out.

I don't know what any of my PBs are, but they will all have been recorded by my various phones/running watches so almost certainly inaccurate to some degree or other anyway.

Timing schmiming.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

I think [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] you are a different animal to most of us - me in particular! I enjoy the competitive aspect of running, even in parkrun which is a run not a race(!). I love that they are all over the country, how many people run them and how each of them has its own faces and personality. People know each other through parkrun, in a similar way to knowing people through football. You don't know people for any other reason, you know them for that one thing only and that's quite a nice dynamic.

I have a very addictive personality and when I get into things, I really get into them in a big way and for running it meant significant focus on times, distances and events. I didn't run many events last year, and I missed competing. This year it's taken a long time to get into a level of fitness where I am back at the top of my game again. It's not that long since I couldn't get under 21 minutes for a parkrun and I couldn't go more than 5 miles at a time. I've really enjoyed this training cycle and I'll be a little bit sad when the race at the end of it is over.

 

[Bozza]

I think [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] you are a different animal to most of us - me in particular! I enjoy the competitive aspect of running, even in parkrun which is a run not a race(!). I love that they are all over the country, how many people run them and how each of them has its own faces and personality. People know each other through parkrun, in a similar way to knowing people through football. You don't know people for any other reason, you know them for that one thing only and that's quite a nice dynamic.

I have a very addictive personality and when I get into things, I really get into them in a big way and for running it meant significant focus on times, distances and events. I didn't run many events last year, and I missed competing. This year it's taken a long time to get into a level of fitness where I am back at the top of my game again. It's not that long since I couldn't get under 21 minutes for a parkrun and I couldn't go more than 5 miles at a time. I've really enjoyed this training cycle and I'll be a little bit sad when the race at the end of it is over.

I also have a very addictive personality and if my knee wasn't made of Weetabix I'd be running a lot more, but because I love being outside running.

I don't have to pay someone £20 or £30 (or whatever races cost - I genuinely have no idea) to scratch my itch of getting outside and working up a sweat.

All this said, I did have thoughts of going to the Worthing Park Run to pop my cherry last weekend, but some friend's made a last-minute visit so I got very drunk with them on Friday night instead. I suspect if I do a Park Run I may then get the bug on times, but I'm not sure I want to.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

I also have a very addictive personality and if my knee wasn't made of Weetabix I'd be running a lot more, but because I love being outside running.

I don't have to pay someone £20 or £30 (or whatever races cost - I genuinely have no idea) to scratch my itch of getting outside and working up a sweat.

All this said, I did have thoughts of going to the Worthing Park Run to pop my cherry last weekend, but some friend's made a last-minute visit so I got very drunk with them on Friday night instead. I suspect if I do a Park Run I may then get the bug on times, but I'm not sure I want to.

I do struggle to justify paying for a lot of events to be fair, the Arena 80ac 10k for example. It's all on the Promenade, it's hard to justify the £20 (just under, I think) cost (there's not even a medal!) but they do chip timing which is ideal if you're racing against [MENTION=18183]big nuts[/MENTION]! Other events are easier to justify though - road closures cost serious cash and you generally get some nice bling to add to the draw.

You might find that you change your tune with parkrun, specifically, when you do break your duck. Presumably, you've got the barcode printed out and ready to go? Personally, I like being able to do parkruns all over the country. 21 courses done with probably a couple more to follow before the end of this year. I've also been able to persuade a few friends to run them as well.

 

[timbha]

Park Run is a strange animal. For a few years I was addicted, ran decent times, made Friends who I would never have met, and felt great after a run awaiting the results with excitement.
Yet now I haven’t run it for over a year, never read their emails and have no plan to run it again.

I think the “change” was due to an injury that affected my times and knowing that I’ll never reach the standard that I had reached before the injury. I’m a bad loser!

 

[Bozza]

You might find that you change your tune with parkrun, specifically, when you do break your duck. Presumably, you've got the barcode printed out and ready to go? Personally, I like being able to do parkruns all over the country. 21 courses done with probably a couple more to follow before the end of this year. I've also been able to persuade a few friends to run them as well.

No barcode, no. I'll check it out.

I certainly enjoy running in different places and have often used it as a way of exploring new places I'm visiting but just doing it by myself.

 

[dazzer6666]

I’m much closer to the [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] profile. I don’t do that many races - maybe one every couple of months on average - and am at my very happiest on long slow runs on the Downs. They are just head-clearing, life-affirming, stress-releasing things. I do, though, like having a target race to focus on, as this helps me train a lot more conscientiously and diligently (I’d revert to being a lazy lardarse in no time otherwise), but the actual race itself more often than not turns to shit for whatever reason (Saturday was a good example).

I’ve never properly nailed a road marathon in a decent time.......I have to say, though, the desire to do so is getting less and less.

 

[Artie Fufkin]

I've had a similar experience as well in the past - I ran 19:04 around Hove Park one morning without a watch and ran Seaford this year in 19:40 without knowing the time. I think it's refreshing and takes some of the pressure off, but I do like to know where I am in a race. In a training run, especially an easy recovery run, it really couldn't matter less and I have it more for info and to track the milage than any other purpose. I think I've got the balance right between wanting to train at certain paces in preparation for Leicester, and being able to enjoy the run.

I'll be pleased to get Leicester out of the way though - I can lower the milage and focus on trying to get under 39:00 for a 10k, and going sub-18 over a 5k for the first time. I blew off a pace session today because my knees and right hip were feeling a bit sore this morning after the weekend's antics - I'm running Darlington's parkrun on saturday which is pretty flat and quick, bar a short and sharp hill you run twice. It seems to be accurately measured - so I'll be giving it a good go!

Sound advice mate! We need to listen to our bodies. The cardiovascular fitness can improve at a faster rate than muscles, tendons, bones, ligaments can tolerate. One reason many runners get injured. Stress + rest = progress. Over stress/train and/or under rest/recover and we risk injury or burn out. Improvements don't happen during time spent running. They happen during time spent resting & recovering. Rest allows the body to absorb the training (stress) to bring about a fitness boost = getting faster.

I would always encourage consistent easy effort running over pace to bring improvements. It's the running consistency that will lead to improvements. Not the running pace.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Thanks GNT. I think multi-sport events have been the savior of my overall fitness because I don't think it would be possible for me to get back to slogging it out for purely long distance running events again. All those miles of running back and forth along the seafront don't feel that appealing anymore especially as the days of getting a sub 3 marathon are now a bit past me I feel.

Open water swimming and longer distance cycling has rekindled my love for doing an activity for the sake of enjoyment rather than achieving a goal and I hope to keep it that way.

I have given up my Garmin and Strava as well because as ridiculous as it seems I pushed myself so as not to get a shit time on my Strava when I should have been listening to my body more.

I can relate to a lot of what you're saying, although probably not to that extent. My body feels knackered before and after every run – not sure if it's a permanent thing, but it's come on relatively quickly. I know I can cover up to marathon distance, but having any sort of fast target time is pretty pointless. Despite the fact that I've not been in the sea for a proper swim this summer and only done one 60-mile bike ride, I'm dying to get back to triathlon. I'm still in the Ironman Wales FB group and seeing the stories coming from people after the weekend has made me desperate to get back there, hopefully in 2021.

Well done on the tri time – that's really impressive

 

[Ninja Elephant]

Sound advice mate! We need to listen to our bodies. The cardiovascular fitness can improve at a faster rate than muscles, tendons, bones, ligaments can tolerate. One reason many runners get injured. Stress + rest = progress. Over stress/train and/or under rest/recover and we risk injury or burn out. Improvements don't happen during time spent running. They happen during time spent resting & recovering. Rest allows the body to absorb the training (stress) to bring about a fitness boost = getting faster.

I would always encourage consistent easy effort running over pace to bring improvements. It's the running consistency that will lead to improvements. Not the running pace.

You post so rarely it's important to really shake the tree when you do!

Do you do many hard pace sessions? Or do you generally train under the pace you're intending to run an event at? When I was training for Brighton earlier this year, I was comfortably able to run at 7:00 - 7:30 per mile over the longer distance runs and then ran at 8:00 per for the recoveries. This training cycle I've not been quite so controlled with the pace so I've been running them slower, and then recovery runs at a slower pace to compensate. It has meant a huge step up in parkrun speed but it means I feel less confident I can run the full 26 miles in the pace I need to. Or, that I'll not be able to sustain the quicker pace once miles 22/23/24 etc roll around.