O/T - Electrical Installation Certificate/ Part P Certificate Advice

[Cheeky Monkey]

Does anyone know if there is an extra charge to get either an Electrical Installation Certificate or a Part P Certificate issued on completion of electrical work or should it just be included in the original price for the work, if there is a charge to get one issued at all? Our builder is saying it will now cost us between £120-£240 to get a certificate issued for electrical work already completed in our kitchen.

Many thanks in advance.

 

[Hendrax]

http://www.esc.org.uk/public/guides-and-advice/building-regulations/england-and-wales/

Read through this and tell me which applies to you.

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

The downstairs kitchen was completely rewired last year and Part P issued for that. We have now had new spot lights fitted across the kitchen ceiling and lighting fitted in the new extension coming off of the kitchen. Don't know if that answers your question Hendrax.

 

[Hendrax]

Well, according to the guidelines you DO need the certificate. whether it should be have been included in the price or not is unknown to me. Maybe you will get a reply from an electrician to help you with this issue. i work in the building trade myself, as a carpenter, so my knowledge of electrical procedure isn't great.

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

Ok cheers. The electrician who did the work has completed and given us an Electrical Installation Certificate (rather than a Part P) for which our builder is saying we will need to pay for.

 

[Wardy]

Is it maybe he is qualified to issue a EIC but not a Part B so would need to get someone else to do that? No idea since I know noting about it.

 

[pigbite]

Typically I would expect the certificate would be in the original pricing, especially for something like a kitchen. It sounds to me like either the works were not undertaken by a person able to issue to a certificate and the builder is now having to pay for someone to come in and do it or that he has fallen out with the original sparky (maybe not paid him) and the sparky is refusing to come back to issue the certificate.

You could stick to your guns and insist he issues the certificate but I suspect you will end up in a bun fight.

Please bear in mind that I don't speak as a qualified electrician, just as someone with 2 family members who are electricians and who regularly subcontracts NIC/NAPIT certified electricians.

 

[beorhthelm]

Ok cheers. The electrician who did the work has completed and given us an Electrical Installation Certificate (rather than a Part P) for which our builder is saying we will need to pay for.

as its the electrician, rather than the builder, who has to sign off the work, i reckon your builder is pulling a fast one. he would have to get a qualified sparks to issue the certificate, so either the electrician (he provided?) isnt or... he's pulling a fast one. i'm pretty sure the "Electrical Installation Certificate " is the part P certificate (which actually refers to a chapter of regulations)

the great thing about regulation is that it gives those wanting to another way to con or otherwise eek a few extra quid out of a job.

 

[Soulman]

Ok cheers. The electrician who did the work has completed and given us an Electrical Installation Certificate (rather than a Part P) for which our builder is saying we will need to pay for.

I'm a sparks and don't do any private work because having the Part P would not be worth my while. I think you have to be Part P registered (which costs a fair amount) to issue an Electrical Installation Certificate. I would assume that the builder is not qualified to hold a Part P, and so has to get a qualified and Part P registered spark in to certificate his work. This seems to happen a lot.
The price sounds about right and unless it was stipulated it was not in the price, which i think it should have been because the jobs like this must be regularly undertaken by the builder, then i think you should not have to pay.
I may be wrong, but that is my opinion.

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

Cheers for responses all. We'll have to thrash it out with the builder (in whom we are rapidly losing faith).

 

[moggy]

I'm an electrician,
You should've recieved an electrical installation certificate which will include all test results.
The work done is more than a minor certificate.
That is given to you after work and testing has been carried out.
You are not charged extra for the paperwork !

 

[moggy]

The trouble with Part P is people take that course which is a 3 day course and think that qualifies them as an electrician.
It does not!
I've got city & guilds 2330 level 2 - two year course
city & guilds 2330 level 3 - one year course
city & guilds 2391 - test and inspect - three month course
17th edition to new amendments - three day intensive

I wish I could've done 3 day part P to qualify as a sparks. Joke certificate

 

[Dean Deyn]

Since the changes in the regs last April, a kitchen is not specified as a "special location" in the regs. Surely this means that, if your new lights are being added to an existing circuit, a certificate does not need to be issued? However, if a new circuit has been installed, then the certificate is required.

 

[Soulman]

The trouble with Part P is people take that course which is a 3 day course and think that qualifies them as an electrician.
It does not!
I've got city & guilds 2330 level 2 - two year course
city & guilds 2330 level 3 - one year course
city & guilds 2391 - test and inspect - three month course
17th edition to new amendments - three day intensive

I wish I could've done 3 day part P to qualify as a sparks. Joke certificate

I could not agree more. I took my 17th under duress as i had qualified back in the late 70's and felt it was just a money making scheme as i had to work to the 17th amendments anyway.
The course i attended had quite a few office workers who had no qualifications and had never been on site or done any electrical work.
It beats me how these building firms can do work on extensions and kitchens etc using non qualified sparks and then just get an Electrical Certificate from a qualified one.

 

[moggy]

Since the changes in the regs last April, a kitchen is not specified as a "special location" in the regs. Surely this means that, if your new lights are being added to an existing circuit, a certificate does not need to be issued? However, if a new circuit has been installed, then the certificate is required.

Correct, but a minor certificate of works should be given for the added lights

 

[Sk8er]

For any electrical work carried out in the the home some sort of electrical certificate should be issued either an 'Electrical Installation Certificate' or a 'Minor Works Certificate', even if you only have a light fitting changed.
Building control will need to see your electrical certificate to sign off your extension.
A Part P Certificate is issued if you have had a new circuit added, a new consumer unit or work has been carried out in a bathroom, swimming pool or sauna.
A Part P Certificate is proof of this work being registered with the local authority, this is the responsibility of the person you are paying to have the work carried out i.e. electrician / builder.
The price of the paperwork should be included in the original cost as the builder / electrical are duty bond to issue the certificates and register the work by their governing body i.e NICEIC, ECA, NHBC etc.

Also a Part P Certificate takes less than 10 mins to to complete on line if the electrician is a registered Part P electrician and it would cost him around £3 to do this each time. So in my opinion you builder is pulling a fast one.
Good luck as you need the builder onside to get your extension signed off, but you shouldn't be paying extra for this paperwork.

 

[Garage_Doors]

I'm a sparks and don't do any private work because having the Part P would not be worth my while. I think you have to be Part P registered (which costs a fair amount) to issue an Electrical Installation Certificate. I would assume that the builder is not qualified to hold a Part P, and so has to get a qualified and Part P registered spark in to certificate his work. This seems to happen a lot.
The price sounds about right and unless it was stipulated it was not in the price, which i think it should have been because the jobs like this must be regularly undertaken by the builder, then i think you should not have to pay.
I may be wrong, but that is my opinion.

I thought all sparks had to be Part P to work? I assume you work for a electrical firm who certify your work?

 

[Garage_Doors]

The trouble with Part P is people take that course which is a 3 day course and think that qualifies them as an electrician.
It does not!
I've got city & guilds 2330 level 2 - two year course
city & guilds 2330 level 3 - one year course
city & guilds 2391 - test and inspect - three month course
17th edition to new amendments - three day intensive

I wish I could've done 3 day part P to qualify as a sparks. Joke certificate

I was a sparky 30 years ago with C&G 232 parts 1&2 and 17th revision. But done no courses since.
So am I still allowed to myself an electrician ?

 

[Soulman]

I thought all sparks had to be Part P to work? I assume you work for a electrical firm who certify your work?

Correct. I subcontract to firms, they have Part P.
What with having to do the ECS every couple of years, and renewing the JIB card every few years, plus the IPAF (why because you do not need to take a driving test every 5 years) then it is pay out time.

 

[bhawoddy]

I thought all sparks had to be Part P to work? I assume you work for a electrical firm who certify your work?

Not totally correct. Part p only covers domestic dwellings, so sparks who work on industrial and commercial wouldn't need that qualification.