Now 300 deaths in Afghanistan. For wat exactly?

[sjamesb3466]

I think you will find it was the Saudi's that were flying jumbo jets into New York before we invaded Iraq and Afghanistan.

Yeah but no western leader is ever going to invade Saudi Arabia until the oil runs out

 

[Biscuit]

Now 300 deaths in Afghanistan. For wat exactly?

$1 Trillion of valuable minerals.

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

Cameron says we are preventing terrorism in the UK.

Wrong.

Us being in Afghanistan is giving extremists a reason to commit acts of terrorism here.

If we get out of their country and leave them alone I'll wager they won't come bothering us.

I fear you may wish to add to the sentence ... "until they have trained more hard line extremists to hit us even harder than THEY did last time"?

 

[daveinprague]

When did they hit us? Didnt the intelligence services conclude there was no Al Qaeda, never mind Taliban involvement in 7/7 bombings?

 

[goldstone]

This is a difficult question.

My first response it that the coalition has a responsibility to leave Afghanistan in a better state that when we entered. I think we are some way off that at the moment.

A "better state" according to whose standards? Maybe the Afghans were happy with the way things were?

Why should we suppose that western democracy is the right solution for every country in the world?

 

[beorhthelm]

The taliban provided shelter for Al Qaeida and Bin Laden who attacked the US in 2001. Afghanistan was invaded in 2001 as a response to the Taliban not giving up Bin Laden.

ah, some FACTS. of course there are alot of other complex politics and other reasons covering the whole history, but the fact is the attack on WTC by people trained and funded from some radical chaps in Afganistan is the reason to originally go there. Does that justify 300 deaths? well what justified the thousands of deaths in WTC? would we have face waves of attacks from those radicals, invigorated by their success? we'll never know, but it has to be considered a possiblity. and then theres simple vengence.

(unless you want to believe some mythical version of history that some secret sect of masons in cohorts with lizard people, blew up the towers and hid/destroyed the aircrafted, to provoke an invasion so the CIA could take over the opium trade or somthing...)

now, Iraq was a deceitful ego trip to clean up unfinished business and grab a bunch of oil fields, with little redeeming reasons.

 

[daveinprague]

Yep, they attacked the WTC in the USA.
Not Britain.

 

[withdeanwombat]

I have no political point to make on this subject.

All Saints Church in Norton Fitzwarren has the flag at half mast again.

Another memorial service on Thursday.

And another planned now for the following week.

And two more deaths today.

And almost a dozen 40 Commando returned home as amputees.

Their tour of duty ends in October.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

So no-one here has an idea as to what our objectives are - and at what point we can say we have achieved them - and pull out. It is amazing isn't it ?

If the politicians sons and daughters were on the front-line we would be out of there sharpish.

 

[drew]

Do you believe they would?

Taliban have never attacked the UK. The only reason they may even consider doing so now, is because British troops are waging Americas war in Afghanistan.

Why do you think they would attack the UK? Other than our involvement in this ridiculous waste of lives?


PS BigGully... WTC was in the USA. Not the UK. They attacked the US for a reason, and that reason was nothing to do with the UK.

Our initial concern is not the Taliban but the fact they are alleged to aided Al Qaeda. The coalition operations are said to have forced Al Qaeda out of Afghanistan and into the mountain regions of Pakistan. If we left now then Al Qaeda would no doubt return.

I think you will find it was the Saudi's that were flying jumbo jets into New York before we invaded Iraq and Afghanistan.

They may have been from Saudi but they were part of Al Qaeda, not representatives of the Saudi state. It would be like suggesting the US invade the UK because of Richard Reid!!!

The only reason Afghanistan is not a "functioning state" is because it has been inundated with war for decades. Whenever it comes close to developing, another war begins. Roughly 1 in 28 people are handicapped, one of the highest rates in the world, and this is because of war.

Aside from the billions worth of natural reserves in Afghanistan, the other obvious incentive to be there is Pakistan - a nation that shows continued negligence fighting terrorism, yet is the place most of them are trained. Obviously we cannot invade an extremely powerful nuclear state, but fighting them from Afghanistan is the next best thing.

The taliban provided shelter for Al Qaeida and Bin Laden who attacked the US in 2001. Afghanistan was invaded in 2001 as a response to the Taliban not giving up Bin Laden.

Before Sept 11th 2001 nobody was interested in the Taliban (in fact the US had funded the Taliban in the 1980's war against Russia), despite what they were doing to the afghan people and its heritage.

Agreed.

Yeah but no western leader is ever going to invade Saudi Arabia until the oil runs out

 

[daveinprague]

My point is...Al Qaeda, didnt attack the UK. It attacked the USA, and for a specific reason. The placement of US troops (ie infidels) in Saudi Arabia (ie the Islamic holy land) following the 1st Gulf war. BinLaden has repeatedly stated this.
The only reason for Al Qaeda to attack the UK, is our involvement with the Americans in their war, a war the Americans could wage without UK troops and the subsequent loss of UK troops, quite well considering the size of their military. So, why are British troops losing their lives fighting their war for them. Maybe im missing it in the news, but im not seeing Americans reported as being killed every couple of days. Maybe Americans have stopped reporting casualties. Who knows. I just fail to see the point of British troops being involved at all.

 

[sten_super]

The only reason for Al Qaeda to attack the UK, is our involvement with the Americans in their war, a war the Americans could wage without UK troops and the subsequent loss of UK troops, quite well considering the size of their military. So, why are British troops losing their lives fighting their war for them. Maybe im missing it in the news, but im not seeing Americans reported as being killed every couple of days. Maybe Americans have stopped reporting casualties. Who knows. I just fail to see the point of British troops being involved at all.

see Coalition casualties in Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Americans have apparently suffered over three times as many casualties as us. You'll also notice that, far from this being a US/UK operation, there are in fact 17 (yes SEVENTEEN) countries that have suffered fatalities in Afghanistan.

 

[clippedgull]

And another one reported this afternoon.

BBC 13:49 23/06/10

A Royal Marine has been shot dead in southern Afghanistan - the fourth from Commando 40 to die in as many days, the Ministry of Defence said.

The marine was conducting a security patrol to reassure locals in the Sangin district of Helmand province when he was shot by insurgents on Wednesday.

Lt Col James Carr-Smith said his courage would not be forgotten.

A total of 304 UK service personnel have now been killed in Afghanistan since the conflict began in 2001.

 

[User removed 4]

My point is...Al Qaeda, didnt attack the UK. It attacked the USA, and for a specific reason. The placement of US troops (ie infidels) in Saudi Arabia (ie the Islamic holy land) following the 1st Gulf war. BinLaden has repeatedly stated this.

So what do you suggest ? the US should've bowed to bin laden's demands and pulled out of saudi ? Lets be pragmatic about this, i'm under no illusions as to why we are interested in propping up the house of al saud, we need their oil, we would suffer catastrophic economic consequences were the fundamentalists to gain control and switch off the taps, seriously, what do you suggest the americans should've done ? pulled out ?

 

[daveinprague]

Im suggesting its their war. Not ours mate...im also aware that other countries are involved. Even if you removed all the coalition or whatever its called partners, the American military can still adequately fight this war, that is about their actions, and their politics, on their own.
Signed off our bar btw Bushy, so you have missed out on Ukrainian chav night ... looking for another place to take over though, so you will still get a good drink from me wherever we end up...

 

[Biscuit]

$1 Trillion of valuable minerals.

This is the answer.

 

[User removed 4]

Im suggesting its their war. Not ours mate...im also aware that other countries are involved. Even if you removed all the coalition or whatever its called partners, the American military can still adequately fight this war, that is about their actions, and their politics, on their own.
Signed off our bar btw Bushy, so you have missed out on Ukrainian chav night ... looking for another place to take over though, so you will still get a good drink from me wherever we end up...

I understand you think it's their war dave, but do you think they should've pulled out of saudi ? the whole world would be f***ed without saudi oil at the moment , not just the US, the way the chinese are hoovering up commodities at the moment.

 

[beorhthelm]

My point is...Al Qaeda, didnt attack the UK.

Germany didnt invade the UK in 1914, yet we went to war in Belgium and France. there are a few other examples, but you get the point: its called an alliance.


re the mineral wealth, that was unknown until recently.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Germany didnt invade the UK in 1914, yet we went to war in Belgium and France. there are a few other examples, but you get the point: its called an alliance.

That went well.

 

[Biscuit]

Germany didnt invade the UK in 1914, yet we went to war in Belgium and France. there are a few other examples, but you get the point: its called an alliance.


re the mineral wealth, that was unknown until recently.

No way. We knew the vast natural wealth that a country like Afghanistan was sitting on. No other explanation adds up.