Nice to see the church living in the real world ........

[DavidinSouthampton]

So do a lot of non-religious people - it's just they don't need to believe in fairy tales to do so. This vote makes the church look even more ridiculous than they already did.

I didn't say that non religious people don't do good work, in fact I work with plenty who do.

I will pass on the fairy tales bit, because that has been done to death on other threads.

And this is only the Church of England. Other Churches in this country such as the Methodist Church and the United Reformed Church have had women ministers for far longer than the C of E has had women priests, and have had women in the senior positions in the church for a long, long time.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

This is a statement aimed at the church itself I assume!?

Well you assume wrongly. People outside the Churches are just as capable of blind prejudice as people within the Churches - in fact, probably more so.

 

[The Large One]

Serious question for [MENTION=22975]DavidinSouthampton[/MENTION]

Those who voted against it - why did they do that? What is/are their issue/s?

 

[BadFish]

Serious question for [MENTION=22975]DavidinSouthampton[/MENTION]

Those who voted against it - why did they do that? What is/are their issue/s?

Because anyone that can bleed for five days and not die is ungodly!

 

[Bold Seagull]

Well you assume wrongly. People outside the Churches are just as capable of blind prejudice as people within the Churches - in fact, probably more so.

Probably more so!? What kind of statement is that? Exactly how did you reach that conclusion? I must have missed the church leaders condemning gay marriage and just voting that women shouldn't be allowed positions of authority in the church.

You know I had a sweet little old lady at the door the other day, trying to get me to join her 'flock', and I politely said I felt religion was responsible for the majority of conflict and violence in the world and wasn't interested, and she said in reply 'that's because other people believe in the wrong religion'....That is what belief is - blindness.

 

[Milton Keynes Seagull]

Rather ironic really, when you consider that the head of the Anglican Church is a woman.

 

[Camicus]

Idiots. On a practical level though as the CofE is there employer shirley its discrimination in the work place and as such illegal?

 

[withdeanwombat]

Why are there Bishops at all ?

Other than their diagonal runs in chess they seem pointless to me.Well,apart from the silly hats.

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

i'm CofE and very disappointed, as is basically everyone at my church

 

[Gilliver's Travels]

If you opened your eyes and abandoned your prejudices, you might realise tha the Church does live in the real world, doing things like helping people who need help.

You always come across as a decent, thoughtful sort of chap. But one may as well respond to your post "If you opened your eyes, got off your knees and used the critical faculties you apply to absolutely every other part of your waking life, you might realise that your religion - and your god - is built on an entirely man-made fantasy. And that it's far better to help people through a sense of shared, earthbound compassion than in expectation of reward in some imagined afterlife."

 

[sten_super]

I normally read the newspaper opinion pieces just for laughs, but I must say that I think that (for once) Dan Hodges in the Telegraph has got this bang on.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100190806/why-do-we-care-about-gods-stance-on-gender-employment-law-might-be/

Personal highlights below;

Ms Threlfall-Holmes prayed to her God for women to be admitted to the episcopate. And her God didn’t come through for her.
Now there are only three logical conclusions to draw from that. First, there is no God, in which case the whole issue is moot. Second, there is a God, He heard her prayer, but instead chose to heed the prayers of those who wished women to remain excluded. In which case it seems pretty much a done deal. Or thirdly, there is a God, but He simply has no interest in adopting a stance either way on this matter. And if God doesn’t have any interest in how the Anglican Church conducts its affairs, why should the rest of us?

Secondly, why is this decision being greeted as if it’s some major aberration? It was reported that this morning Rowan Williams told the Synod, “We have, to put it bluntly, a lot of explaining to do. We have undoubtedly lost credibility in society.” What credibility? At what point were women bishops part of the fabric of the Church? Or society at large? How can an organisation that has been excluding women from its highest ministries for centuries suddenly be said to have “lost its credibility”? If women bishops really are an important litmus test of credibility, then the Church to which Rowan Williams chose to devote his life has never had any.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Remember that women are evil. It was Eve who lead Adam down the garden path to corruption.

They really are evil.

It's they who are responsible for making the words worst movies, music and TV shows popular.

They need to be stopped!

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Serious question for [MENTION=22975]

Those who voted against it - why did they do that? What is/are their issue/s?

They aren't allowed to join women only gyms.

It's a backlash against that sort of draconian sexism in gymnasiums.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

So do a lot of non-religious people - it's just they don't need to believe in fairy tales to do so. This vote makes the church look even more ridiculous than they already did.

I think you'll find even the non-religious people believe in fairy tales.

Like the kind of fairy tales that promotes humanity as actually mattering to the universe.

The Existential Nihilists seem to be the ones who don't live in a fairy land.

 

[Triggaaar]

They could even double up

You'd like that wouldn't you, you filthy swine.

 

[Acker79]

I normally read the newspaper opinion pieces just for laughs, but I must say that I think that (for once) Dan Hodges in the Telegraph has got this bang on.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100190806/why-do-we-care-about-gods-stance-on-gender-employment-law-might-be/

Personal highlights below;

Ms Threlfall-Holmes prayed to her God for women to be admitted to the episcopate. And her God didn’t come through for her.
Now there are only three logical conclusions to draw from that. First, there is no God, in which case the whole issue is moot. Second, there is a God, He heard her prayer, but instead chose to heed the prayers of those who wished women to remain excluded. In which case it seems pretty much a done deal. Or thirdly, there is a God, but He simply has no interest in adopting a stance either way on this matter. And if God doesn’t have any interest in how the Anglican Church conducts its affairs, why should the rest of us?

As I understand it, there is also the possibility that Azrael set the stygian triplets on God while he/she was taking one of his/her sabbaticals enjoying some skeeball and God is currently in a coma in some new jersey hospital so was unable to answer the prayer.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Serious question for [MENTION=22975]DavidinSouthampton[/MENTION]

Those who voted against it - why did they do that? What is/are their issue/s?

Not being an Anglican, i am not sure I am the best person to answer this.

But a lot of people (among the laity) seem to be thinking that not enough was being proposed to look after those who objected had the vote been successful - i.e. making sure that those who don't want women bishops have a male bishop somewhere in the hierarchy to look after them.

I have also seen quoted on another thread on here 1 Timothy, chapter 12, verse 12, which states "I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent." That is a letter to Paul, whom a nember of people would hold to be anti-women", but when one silly woman on the news last night was saying that women bishops are anti-scripture, I can't for the life of me think what else they might be basing it on.

Someone else on this thread has said that any human being who can bleed for five days and not die must be unclean ( or something like that) I fear there is actually some truth in that. I heard a woman priest talking at a conference about the place of women in religion a few months ago who made exactly that point as reason for rejection of women priests in the first place.

Finally, if three votes in the House of Laity had been for, rather than against, the vote would have gone through. It is "conservative evangelicals" who tend to be against the idea of women priests - the same people who are more likely to believe in the creation story (that is a sweeping generalisation and I might get shot down in Flames.) The Conservative Evangelicals probably tend to be better organised than other parts of the Church, and will make every effort to maintain the status quo.

But personally, I am disgusted at the whole thing. Whatever or whoever jesus was (i.e. whether you believe in the fairy stories or not), the historical Jesus spent a great deal of his time getting in trouble with and challenging the religious authorities at the time over their hypocrisy, over-zealous sticking to the letter of the law rather than the spirit of the law (for example getting in trouble for healing somebody on a Sunday - should I have let them die?). I can't thinking that he would be angry and consequently busy now.

 

[The Spanish]

........ NOT !!!!!!

in fairness the whole point of the church is about not living in the real world.

 

[The Spanish]

I think you'll find even the non-religious people believe in fairy tales.

Like the kind of fairy tales that promotes humanity as actually mattering to the universe.

The Existential Nihilists seem to be the ones who don't live in a fairy land.

fairy tales indisputably exist tyrone. its fairies you are thinking of.

 

[TWOCHOICEStom]

So basically, women are not equal to men in the churches eyes. It's that simple.

Well, there's a shocker right there....