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[Politics] NHS today



Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
55,912
Faversham
This is a depressing tale. The area between Faversham, Canterbury and Ashford (and surrounds) is serviced for 'acute care' (emergencies) by one hospital (Ashford). Along with several dozen people (not a huge crowd it has to be said) I spent 10 hours today waiting to be seen. I had a bloke in blue overalls try twice and fail twice to take my blood. I was referred to a clever machine that takes the blood automatically, but this was wheeled out of acute care in front of my eyes because it was needed elsewhere (for reasons that had no obvious priority - there is no oversight). Just one of these machines in a trust hospital?

At nine thirty PM we were all told there was an emergency and none of us would be seen till the morning. We had the choice of hunkering down (many of us on 'no solids') or discharging ourselves - and join the back of the queue tomorrow; I was advised to get in around 5 AM. There is no public transport at that time of day (first bus leaves Faversham from nowhere near where I live at 6.42 and takes over an hour to get to the William Harvey). In the end, I went home (thanks to my son being available to drive me - he'll be in Manchester tomorrow so I may well drive myself and risk driving under the influence of thiobarbitone on the way home, in te unlikely even I get seen and cut open).

When I was invited to leave I had to sign a waiver to say that I was taking the risk of leaving into my own hands. I said 'what if my appendix bursts?' and administrator said 'that's your decision'.

To add insult to injury, several people complained at waiting many hours (28 was the highest) only to be told 'you have that wrong, it was only 12). After some discussion we found that as you pass through each stage (triage, assessment by a nurse practitioner or generalist, to seeing the actual consultant or senior registrar doctor) the clock is restarted.

So this is how the hospitals keep their numbers in order, redifining what a waiting time means, and bullying patients into going home and restarting the clock when it's looking iffy.

I need a CT scan. I was told at 8 pm that the CT scanning is managed overnight by a private company who are very slow. They keep their own patient list and the hospital cannot tell me where I am in their queue. That's like outsourcing half time food at the Amex to 'Eateroo' who then refuse to say what food will be onsale, when it will be onsale and how much it will cost. Guv.

So I am self medicating with codeine and wine, and anticipating possibly having to call an ambulance tonight where I will be dumped back at the end of the queue I left today.

Some of the people in there with me were in a terrible state, but I was surprised by the 'wartime spirit'. There were a few comments about Gove but as far as I can see, allowing the NHS to crumble into an embarrassment has not dented the general apathy of the locals of North East Kent. If Johnson has gambled that we will take whatever NHS is rationed to us, without much complaint, I suspect that, once again he is right.

The dispicable little turd.
 




A mex eyecan

Well-known member
Nov 3, 2011
3,847
Jeez Harry,
that’s bloody awful.

If i were nearer you and not covid positive i would collect you and take you.
any of us on NSC near Harry and could help him?
 


wellquickwoody

Many More Voting Years
NSC Patron
Aug 10, 2007
13,903
Melbourne
Awful, just awful, I actually do sympathize with you.

That said, I would refuse to sign a self discharge form as they cannot exactly hold you prisoner now can they? By all means blame the current Tory government for many of the issues in the NHS, but also maybe the whole culture within the organisation needs looking at? Middle managers, departmental bosses and their like have maybe become consumed by a "avoid responsibility at all costs' mindset. I wish you a speedy recovery.
 


Southern Scouse

Well-known member
Jul 21, 2011
2,095
Harry on behalf of the NHS I am extremely sorry for everything that you and your fellow patients have been through. I could probably explain why and justify each of your points but in the end it will not change the situation. I work in the East of England where I could tell you many similar stories. If you read the online BBC News today you will find another such example in Gloucestershire. What you describe happens everyday, and only becomes raw when we ourselves or one of our own experience it first hand.
If everyone gave 10% of their wages to an all inclusive NHS It still
Would not be enough, because we are very good at making I’ll people live longer. It would of course improve waiting times and service delivery and would have possibly changed your experience today.
I understand there is a bill going through Parliament that is trying to insure that all service providers in the NHS are in fact employees and not private establishments. This may mean that it stays nationalised but it would stop companies making a profit instead of the money staying in the system even if that may increase its inefficiency. I could give you so many examples in my area which you would find unbelievable in current day situations by why make you feel worse than you already do.
The NHS is a very special service. The vast majority of its employees have you at heart as they are also in need of its service’s. It just needs reinventing for today’s expectations and that will never happen as long as it is run by a government that puts profit over people.
So once again I apologise to you and everyone else who has been through the same situation or knows someone who has, we really are trying to do our best in extremely difficult circumstances.
 


Brok

🦡
Dec 26, 2011
4,373
Now, yesterday I had the exact opposite experience.
Rocked up to Crewe hospital at 9am, got seen, x-rayed, assessed, and arm plastered.
At 10.15 I was on the way home.

Maybe it's a postcode thing?
 




bhafc99

Well-known member
Oct 14, 2003
7,448
Dubai
But as long as lots of Tory slimeballs and their friends got their snouts firmly in the trough of raking off millions in dodgy PPE deals during covid, it’s all good hey.
 


Neville's Breakfast

Well-known member
May 1, 2016
13,450
Oxton, Birkenhead
Harry, remember emergencies take priority. It is a little unclear how acute your need was. I feel the opposite about the NHS. I am in complete awe about living in a country where my life has been saved several times, the follow up care by several departments has been incredible and I am on free daily medication that keeps me alive.
 


dazzer6666

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Mar 27, 2013
55,426
Burgess Hill
Not going to comment on the reasons/solutions as this thread will very quickly go the same way as as any other that can be politicised but hope you’re ok and whatever it is gets sorted asap @HWT.
 




Napper

Well-known member
Jul 9, 2003
24,449
Sussex
Sounds horrific and I feel sorry for anyone who gets ill these days .

Unfortunately if you vote Tory , you get Tory

Yet some still don’t see it
 


Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
62,609
The Fatherland
Harry on behalf of the NHS I am extremely sorry for everything that you and your fellow patients have been through. I could probably explain why and justify each of your points but in the end it will not change the situation. I work in the East of England where I could tell you many similar stories. If you read the online BBC News today you will find another such example in Gloucestershire. What you describe happens everyday, and only becomes raw when we ourselves or one of our own experience it first hand.
If everyone gave 10% of their wages to an all inclusive NHS It still
Would not be enough, because we are very good at making I’ll people live longer. It would of course improve waiting times and service delivery and would have possibly changed your experience today.
I understand there is a bill going through Parliament that is trying to insure that all service providers in the NHS are in fact employees and not private establishments. This may mean that it stays nationalised but it would stop companies making a profit instead of the money staying in the system even if that may increase its inefficiency. I could give you so many examples in my area which you would find unbelievable in current day situations by why make you feel worse than you already do.
The NHS is a very special service. The vast majority of its employees have you at heart as they are also in need of its service’s. It just needs reinventing for today’s expectations and that will never happen as long as it is run by a government that puts profit over people.
So once again I apologise to you and everyone else who has been through the same situation or knows someone who has, we really are trying to do our best in extremely difficult circumstances.

10% maybe, but 14% will give you a first class service.

“Germany

Germany is widely recognised as a country with some of the best healthcare in the world. This country is also one of the most medically advanced in the world, thanks to a high proportion of the world’s best medical technology universities.

According to the Commonwealth Fund, it performs especially well for access – its mixed public-private system, funded by statutory contributions, keeps costs and waiting times low.”

I remember when Covid started and the German healthcare system compared to NHS was compared and some of the stats were startling. Germany had a 30bn surplus whereas the NHS was 20bn in debt. Something like 40% more doctors per 1000 people, 30% more ICU beds etc.

The wife had minor elective surgery last week and the whole process from going to the GP, referal, pre-op and op took 3 weeks.

I think one of the biggest hindrances will be the 14%…..Brits don’t like paying taxes.
 
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Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
NSC Patron
Jul 16, 2003
58,775
hassocks
10% maybe, but 14% will give you a first class service.

“Germany

Germany is widely recognised as a country with some of the best healthcare in the world. This country is also one of the most medically advanced in the world, thanks to a high proportion of the world’s best medical technology universities.

According to the Commonwealth Fund, it performs especially well for access – its mixed public-private system, funded by statutory contributions, keeps costs and waiting times low.”

I remember when Covid started and the German healthcare system compared to NHS was compared and some of the stats were startling. Germany had a 30bn surplus whereas the NHS was 20bn in debt. Something like 40% more doctors per 1000 people, 30% more ICU beds etc.

The wife had minor elective surgery last week and the whole process from going to the GP, referal, pre-op and op took 3 weeks.

I think one of the biggest hindrances will be the 14%…..Brits don’t like paying taxes.

Is the German system half private half public?
 




1066familyman

Radio User
Jan 15, 2008
15,233
Welcome to the story of my last two fecking years!

In the meantime, I hope you get seen and sorted soon. Good luck. You'll need it!
 


1066familyman

Radio User
Jan 15, 2008
15,233
Sounds horrific and I feel sorry for anyone who gets ill these days .

Unfortunately if you vote Tory , you get Tory

Yet some still don’t see it

I think you'll find...

For many. If you vote Tory, you go private.

For the rest of us... You get Fvcked!

Welcome to Tory Britain.
 


Icy Gull

Back on the rollercoaster
Jul 5, 2003
72,015
Sounds horrendous Harry. I have found the NHS to be amazing when dealing with life threatening or serious conditions. I have also been left waiting ages when more urgent cases jump me in the queue, not ideal but totally understandable. In fact it’s a good thing imo

Hope all works out well today and you get better very soon
 




beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,994
seems the problem experienced stems from how we group health care services into the same building. feeling dizzy, finger cut, broken leg, car crash truma all go to A&E. at capacity triage kicks in and obviously the latter takes priority. you can resolve this through more resources (which will be unused 80% of the time), or with different treatment centres according to need.

and then there's the hand off to a service provider, which is hamstrung from them and us attitude, poor IT systems and blinkered obsession on data privacy (you can keep data secured and shared if you want - they do when it suits them).
 


drew

Drew
NSC Patron
Oct 3, 2006
23,581
Burgess Hill
With regard to Herr Tubthumper, German contributes more of it's GDP to healthcare than here. That's a political decision.

With regard to the current state of our NHS, there are far too many vacancies. In March there nearly 100k vacancies.

As for the OP, hope he gets to see someone soon. I'm not sure it is a postcode thing, can be just bad luck/timing which you can't control. I was in A&E at Princess Royal Haywards Heath on Friday 3rd with a very badly sprained ankle. Was in and out within 2 hours including having an x-ray.
 


drew

Drew
NSC Patron
Oct 3, 2006
23,581
Burgess Hill
seems the problem experienced stems from how we group health care services into the same building. feeling dizzy, finger cut, broken leg, car crash truma all go to A&E. at capacity triage kicks in and obviously the latter takes priority. you can resolve this through more resources (which will be unused 80% of the time), or with different treatment centres according to need.

and then there's the hand off to a service provider, which is hamstrung from them and us attitude, poor IT systems and blinkered obsession on data privacy (you can keep data secured and shared if you want - they do when it suits them).

That's not necessarily the case. There are many minor injury clinics in Brighton, Crawley, Horsham and I think Uckfield but people tend to go to their nearest A&E.
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,994
I think one of the biggest hindrances will be the 14%…..Brits don’t like paying taxes.

this is true and a large hurdle. however we've seen Conservatives rise taxes for social care so it is possible if there is a will. the larger hurdle is the doctrine to keep out private health care, despite all evidence across europe of alternative approaches. there is an obsession that this is binary, either 100% public owned or US style 100% insurance based. nothing in between exists in many minds, despite the fact our system has never been 100% public owned. much to admire about the German system starting with the simple business of seeing a specialist instead of a GP.
 




maltaseagull

Well-known member
Feb 25, 2009
13,356
Zabbar- Malta
10% maybe, but 14% will give you a first class service.

“Germany

Germany is widely recognised as a country with some of the best healthcare in the world. This country is also one of the most medically advanced in the world, thanks to a high proportion of the world’s best medical technology universities.

According to the Commonwealth Fund, it performs especially well for access – its mixed public-private system, funded by statutory contributions, keeps costs and waiting times low.”

I remember when Covid started and the German healthcare system compared to NHS was compared and some of the stats were startling. Germany had a 30bn surplus whereas the NHS was 20bn in debt. Something like 40% more doctors per 1000 people, 30% more ICU beds etc.

The wife had minor elective surgery last week and the whole process from going to the GP, referal, pre-op and op took 3 weeks.

I think one of the biggest hindrances will be the 14%…..Brits don’t like paying taxes.

That is so true.
If a party was ever brave enough to promise to invest the funds required over s sustained period at the cost of increased taxes, they would not be elected.
Having said that, the NHS is very poor at use of funds and billions are wasted every year.
One of the worst mistakes, in my opinion, was the setting up of the trusts. Each has a CEO and a team of very well paid managers doing the same job as hundreds of others at huge cost. This needs to be rationalised and the money spent on the front end of services.
I am sure that the staff are great but their motivation is being destroyed.
 


amexer

Well-known member
Aug 8, 2011
6,812
Now, yesterday I had the exact opposite experience.
Rocked up to Crewe hospital at 9am, got seen, x-rayed, assessed, and arm plastered.
At 10.15 I was on the way home.

Maybe it's a postcode thing?

This is not the place for good service comments
 


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