Monarch into admin

[Balders]

You must realize that I am only your average joe with no real knowledge of the industry but just interested in what is happening and how it will affect me in the future when I fly.

If you want the least hassle, book through an ATOL Travel Agent. Yes I have my own business - this morning I have rebooked customers flights where I'd booked an ATOL Flight Plus holiday at no extra cost to the customers. Couple of phone calls, job done. Package ATOL is a little different, if I booked one with Monarch Holidays, that will be a refund and rebook, if it was booked through another Tour Op as a package with Monarch flights, they will provide either alternative flights or a full refund. If you DIY book and don't get any ATOL protection, assuming you paid by Credit Card (which you must) then if you rebook flights with another carrier (potentially for more money), it's at your own cost as you have to claim your refund from the Credit Card provider. Dependent on how long that takes and your cashflow, some might not be able to rebook before their departure date and will miss their holiday if they can't afford to rebook. Under Flight Plus, if the flights were originally £500 and they are now £800, we pick up the extra £300 (well our Insurers do!) as long as the new flight cost isn't more than the total holiday price!

 

[GreersElbow]

You must realize that I am only your average joe with no real knowledge of the industry but just interested in what is happening and how it will affect me in the future when I fly.

Granted - how will it affect you? Likely to see higher prices, though I'm not in the aviation industry. I'm just close to Greybull who owns Monarch.

 

[BensGrandad]

If you want the least hassle, book through an ATOL Travel Agent. Yes I have my own business - this morning I have rebooked customers flights where I'd booked an ATOL Flight Plus holiday at no extra cost to the customers. Couple of phone calls, job done. Package ATOL is a little different, if I booked one with Monarch Holidays, that will be a refund and rebook, if it was booked through another Tour Op as a package with Monarch flights, they will provide either alternative flights or a full refund. If you DIY book and don't get any ATOL protection, assuming you paid by Credit Card (which you must) then if you rebook flights with another carrier (potentially for more money), it's at your own cost as you have to claim your refund from the Credit Card provider. Dependent on how long that takes and your cashflow, some might not be able to rebook before their departure date and will miss their holiday if they can't afford to rebook. Under Flight Plus, if the flights were originally £500 and they are now £800, we pick up the extra £300 (well our Insurers do!) as long as the new flight cost isn't more than the total holiday price!

You wont like me then as I always book my accommodation usually an apartment through somebody like owners direct/owners abroad anybody bar Airnb and then book my flights direct and my transfer through suntransfers..

 

[Balders]

You wont like me then as I always book my accommodation usually an apartment through somebody like owners direct/owners abroad anybody bar Airnb and then book my flights direct and my transfer through suntransfers..

Don't ring me then when something goes wrong like your airline failing (surely that will never happen lol) or the owner of your property abroad decides either to sell the property or give it to someone else who give them a better offer (granted that's the minority of cases, but trust me it happens!)

Already taken calls from people who booked DIY holidays buying Monarch flights asking for advice (of course I get paid for offering advice.....NOT!)

 

[stugbhafc1]

Who turned it down Greyball or the airlines, not clear. Even so could a 2nd approach be made?

Greyball I believe, think its too late for second approach think it works out better for them to sell off assets and make people redundant rather than sell as a whole

 

[Two Professors]

You could easily convince them that black's white. Any kind of dodgy Management Accounts would have done it. That's part of my angst when these things crop up ... two weeks ago they're talking up the business and saying how there's nothing of substance in the rumours of financial difficulty and then they go bang, take down a whole bunch of creditors, passengers and staff. If they (regulator, investors) had even the basic checks and balances in place they would have seen this coming clear as day. Everyone in Snr Mangement knew and they'll walk away with the story they've been rehearsing the past few weeks and a 'clear conscience' no doubt

Grayling on TV did a good impression of a piece of soggy lettuce, and as for saying the DWP were ready to deal with staff who were losing their jobs, he made it sound like some sort of favour. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

They were still touting for business friday night!

 

[BensGrandad]

Don't ring me then when something goes wrong like your airline failing (surely that will never happen lol) or the owner of your property abroad decides either to sell the property or give it to someone else who give them a better offer (granted that's the minority of cases, but trust me it happens!)

Already taken calls from people who booked DIY holidays buying Monarch flights asking for advice (of course I get paid for offering advice.....NOT!)

You seem to forget that Owners direct is owned by a major company and the sites are guaranteed so I assume that if it fell through they would find an alternative. I must admit I could have come unstuck this year as I booked our flights through skyscanner and it gave Monarch going out and BA coming back but usually I use Easy jet or BA direct.

 

[Balders]

You seem to forget that Owners direct is owned by a major company and the sites are guaranteed so I assume that if it fell through they would find an alternative. I must admit I could have come unstuck this year as I booked our flights through skyscanner and it gave Monarch going out and BA coming back but usually I use Easy jet or BA direct.

"you seem to forget that Owners Direct is owned by a major company and the sites are guaranteed" - umm just like Monarch........so naive!

Sure they would offer an alternative............if one was available. Out of many examples, I'll introduce you to a lady who booked a once in a lifetime family holiday to Orlando 9 mths before departure. I did the flights and car hire (£100 deposit each btw) quoted for a Villa but she decided to book one via Owners Direct to save £100. 2 weeks before the holiday, Owners Direct refunded her money as the Villa became unavailable and they had no alternatives, so she was stuck with flights and car hire (that were non refundable) but no Villa. Took her 3 days to source one and it cost her a good deal more than the £100 she initially thought she had saved.

 

[BensGrandad]

"you seem to forget that Owners Direct is owned by a major company and the sites are guaranteed" - umm just like Monarch........so naive!

Sure they would offer an alternative............if one was available. Out of many examples, I'll introduce you to a lady who booked a once in a lifetime family holiday to Orlando 9 mths before departure. I did the flights and car hire (£100 deposit each btw) quoted for a Villa but she decided to book one via Owners Direct to save £100. 2 weeks before the holiday, Owners Direct refunded her money as the Villa became unavailable and they had no alternatives, so she was stuck with flights and car hire (that were non refundable) but no Villa. Took her 3 days to source one and it cost her a good deal more than the £100 she initially thought she had saved.

I must have been fortunate then in Cyprus, Algarve and Spain over the last 20 years as I have booked 3 a year in the early days but now down to 2 a year as I cant afford 3 or 1 if booked through a travel agent., but everybody has to earn a living and some people cant be bothered or have the time like me to source their own. My 3 boys all go through a travel agent to book a holiday with a reputable company.

 

[wakeytom]

You could easily convince them that black's white. Any kind of dodgy Management Accounts would have done it. That's part of my angst when these things crop up ... two weeks ago they're talking up the business and saying how there's nothing of substance in the rumours of financial difficulty and then they go bang, take down a whole bunch of creditors, passengers and staff. If they (regulator, investors) had even the basic checks and balances in place they would have seen this coming clear as day. Everyone in Snr Mangement knew and they'll walk away with the story they've been rehearsing the past few weeks and a 'clear conscience' no doubt

Grayling on TV did a good impression of a piece of soggy lettuce, and as for saying the DWP were ready to deal with staff who were losing their jobs, he made it sound like some sort of favour. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

This is obviosuly a bad situation but what did you want them to do with my bolded section above? Tell people they are in trouble so no one books and cashflow stops immediately? I know nothing about this case but guess that they have been trying to sort things behind closed doors, they didnt come to fruition and cashflow dried up.

My feelings go to those affected especially the workers

 

[Balders]

I must have been fortunate then in Cyprus, Algarve and Spain over the last 20 years as I have booked 3 a year in the early days but now down to 2 a year as I cant afford 3 or 1 if booked through a travel agent., but everybody has to earn a living and some people cant be bothered or have the time like me to source their own. My 3 boys all go through a travel agent to book a holiday with a reputable company.

well that's a bit of a sweeping statement - "or 1 if booked through a travel agent" - how do you know, do you regularly check Travel Agents, because trust me, we have a lot of deals that can't be found online.........or is this just perception based on ignorance?

not sure how to take your comment in respect of your boys booking with a "reputable company" - I take that as a perception that you may or may not know whether mine is a "reputable company", but since you don't know me (or trust me or other agents by your booking habits) I guess I may not be far away with my supposition?

 

[Rugrat]

This is obviosuly a bad situation but what did you want them to do with my bolded section above? Tell people they are in trouble so no one books and cashflow stops immediately? I know nothing about this case but guess that they have been trying to sort things behind closed doors, they didnt come to fruition and cashflow dried up.

My feelings go to those affected especially the workers

Of course it's a difficult situation but this was a business that had to be bailed out last year and they obviously didn't fix the underlying problem. I don't really know the answer but I would have imagined that the events of last October would have put them under microscopic scrutiny. Taking some of that bail out and putting it into a reserve to cover this eventuality (at least until they could demonstrate they were on a firm footing) might have been an answer. Had they done that the business could have maybe ceased trading, kept their fleet in the air for a couple of weeks to get the vast majority of people home and allowed their staff a bit of breathing space. Just running out of money and shutting in an instant is gross negligence on the part of many imo.

 

[BensGrandad]

well that's a bit of a sweeping statement - "or 1 if booked through a travel agent" - how do you know, do you regularly check Travel Agents, because trust me, we have a lot of deals that can't be found online.........or is this just perception based on ignorance?

not sure how to take your comment in respect of your boys booking with a "reputable company" - I take that as a perception that you may or may not know whether mine is a "reputable company", but since you don't know me (or trust me or other agents by your booking habits) I guess I may not be far away with my supposition?

As you say I do not know you and it was not meant as a knock against you in any way shape or form. If it came across like that I must apologise most profusely As regards my boys booking their family holidays through 'reputable companies'; I mean through the likes of Thomson Thomas Cook etc as opposed to the travel shop that made the booking and when I see what they are paying I shudder, My last holiday for 14 nights in Costa Blanca in an apartment with Airport parking, Flights, accommodation and transfers both ways cost us less than £210 each. My sons pay on an average £700 + each person which I cannot afford as an oap.

 

[empire]

Booked a 5day break to Spain as I wouldn't miss a bha game,gutted,not protected and other flights have quadrupled ,can't even get my airport parking refund

 

[wakeytom]

Of course it's a difficult situation but this was a business that had to be bailed out last year and they obviously didn't fix the underlying problem. I don't really know the answer but I would have imagined that the events of last October would have put them under microscopic scrutiny. Taking some of that bail out and putting it into a reserve to cover this eventuality (at least until they could demonstrate they were on a firm footing) might have been an answer. Had they done that the business could have maybe ceased trading, kept their fleet in the air for a couple of weeks to get the vast majority of people home and allowed their staff a bit of breathing space. Just running out of money and shutting in an instant is gross negligence on the part of many imo.

I am no expert in this field but I thought that was the point of Atol and companies paid towards it so that funds are pooled and then dispersed in a situation such as this? Still doesnt help the workers though

 

[Balders]

As you say I do not know you and it was not meant as a knock against you in any way shape or form. If it came across like that I must apologise most profusely As regards my boys booking their family holidays through 'reputable companies'; I mean through the likes of Thomson Thomas Cook etc as opposed to the travel shop that made the booking and when I see what they are paying I shudder, My last holiday for 14 nights in Costa Blanca in an apartment with Airport parking, Flights, accommodation and transfers both ways cost us less than £210 each. My sons pay on an average £700 + each person which I cannot afford as an oap.

So it's not about distribution it's about price - thankfully I don't go for your kind of market ;-)

Just to give you a bit of background - I am a member of the UK's largest Independent Trade Buying Group. Taking Thomas Cook as an example, since they ramped down their Direct Marketing, they actually transact more business through Agents than they do direct - in fact as a Buying Group we sell more Thomas Cook holidays than Thomas Cook themselves. I will guarantee you (in respect of Cooks) that any price I quote will be identical to the price that they quote direct because they give Agents "price parity". Add into the mix that they let us book with a £50ppn deposit (instead of going on their Direct Debit scheme direct) and if you twist my arm, I can discount the price of their holiday direct from the commission they pay me to place business with them.

Enlightened??

 

[BensGrandad]

On a pension it is price orientated but not with my boys who are all working. I am happy to go somewhere in the sun and and sit and enjoy the weather with a beer or wine sat on a terrace playing on NSC and just to please everybody else who worries getting my post count up, or jumping in the pool. Then going for a nice meal in the evening with my wife and her sister and my brothers in law. That is heaven to us. I am through with visiting tourist spots etc and just want relax in the sun.

 

[Rugrat]

I am no expert in this field but I thought that was the point of Atol and companies paid towards it so that funds are pooled and then dispersed in a situation such as this? Still doesnt help the workers though

I'm no expert either, my business is pretty well banking although I also have several years in Airline. I don't believe ATOL comes into play for the vast majority as 95% of their business was flight only. Most of those bookings won't get their money back (credit card section 75 only comes into play over £100 per booking) but many will of course. That said my point was more about the disruption and anxiety this has caused, much of which I think could have been avoided with proper 'regulatory' scrutiny.

Here in Tenerife they are reporting 12,500 'stranded' pax. Yes they'll all get back but they're bringing in 747's and ferrying back in big chunks and pot luck which airport you go to. Maybe not the biggest deal but something that could and should have been avoided. I may be wrong (and perhaps experts on here will correct) but I think it's the taxpayer that will be footing the bill for most of that lot

 

[Rugrat]

I am no expert in this field but I thought that was the point of Atol and companies paid towards it so that funds are pooled and then dispersed in a situation such as this? Still doesnt help the workers though

As a PS Beeb now reporting it's costing Gov't (taxpayer) £60M to get everyone home

 

[Garage_Doors]

In theory Monarch could have carried on flying without the ATOL Licence (only covers the package holiday arm of the business) but that would spook their Creditors not getting the licence due to financial issues and it would spiral into a Contigent Effect. Flying people back on their own planes would in that situation likely rile Creditors.

14 day extension - happened last year when the finances were in better shape, but I guess this year it was obvious to a blind man and a dog that the situation wasn't recoverable.

When i rang Santander this evening to put a claim in for my money back we were told that Monarch had lost their ATOL licence in November 2016, so any flights booked after then were not covered.