Missing Woman in London

[RossyG]

Thank goodness we’ve had sane, rational men democratically elected like Donald Trump.

Fixed that for you. Hitler wasn’t democratically elected.

As for Covid deaths, that remains to be seen.

 

[knocky1]

Yes, just think, without the suffragettes we’d never have had Margaret Thatcher, Dianne Abbott, Edwina Currie, Theresa May or Priti Patel.

Suffragettes did nothing for Doris Johnson.

 

[RossyG]

Suffragettes did nothing for Doris Johnson.

We can “thank” the BBC for him.

Have I Got News For You, to be precise.

 

[The Fits]

They do but it’s become Sanitised and there is an outrage for everything .

A lot of the same people are on the protest campaigns and social media is giving a voice to some worrying things .

Roll on normal life again

This is really dangerous.
Lot's of people are interested in activism. They are concerned about issues that don't purely relate directly to them.
People should be outraged about things- what exactly is wrong about being outraged about violence on women, about racism, about austerity, about trans rights, about poverty, about tax dodgers etc etc?

 

[The Fits]

Again the problem I have with this is all with the timing - I appreciate the cause but why couldn't they have waited a couple of months until the lockdown is eased?

The tragic murders of Ellie Gould in 2019, Tracey Kidd last year or Kelly Stewart all made the news but there were no protests when these murders occured. Were they any less important?

You're absolutely right here.
But, the problem is people are at breaking point. It's unprecedented times and people are angry about many things. This was, for many women, the final straw on the camels back. Every body knew this was going to be a well attended, highly emotive event.
The police knew that. They mishandled it.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Fixed that for you. Hitler wasn’t democratically elected.

As for Covid deaths, that remains to be seen.

Oh dear. You really haven't got it at all have you?

In 1933 there was an election in Germany that returned the Nazi party into power with Hitler as Chancellor. You may say it was rigged and plagued with violence and you'd be right, but was it any less democratic than an election in which women can't vote (which was the original point)?

 

[clapham_gull]

No chance they would have been socially distanced through out, that is wishful thinking.

Who chooses the common sense causes?

The Policing of this whole pandemic has been laughable, but is that down to them or the laws been forced on to them ? I believe the police said this was unworkable from the start.

The common is massive and the selection of the band stand for the subsequent protect was quite arbitrary to be honest. Something (under the circumstances) could have been organised.

A minutes silence was planned and negotiations were taking place between all interested parties. At the last minute the Met pulled out and said they would fine the organisers £10,000 each if the event went ahead.

This was challenged in court, but all the Judge did was decide not to intervene and said they should continue discussions.

It centred around what was a reasonable excuse to leave the house and whether anyone attending were actually "meeting up".

So the official event was cancelled but wasn't deemed "illegal" as some on here have suggested. It's the job of the Police to upheld the law, not decide by themselves what's illegal or not.

So the Met ended up with a very predictable disorganised and at times "angry" (but not violent) event on their hands. Any fines handed out "meaningless" because Crowd Funding had been pre-organised to pay them.

I disagreed with the event in the first place, but when it became obvious something was gonna happen anyway, the Police should have continued discussions.

They didn't and have ended up with another huge PR disaster on their hands for their reaction.

 

[RossyG]

Oh dear. You really haven't got it at all have you?

In 1933 there was an election in Germany that returned the Nazi party into power with Hitler as Chancellor. You may say it was rigged and plagued with violence and you'd be right, but was it any less democratic than an election in which women can't vote (which was the original point)?

Hitler was appointed Chancellor by President Hindenburg and when Hindenburg died, Hitler appointed himself President.

You’re right that the Nazi party won votes in 1933. At the time, female voters slightly outnumbered male voters but were as likely as men to vote Nazi.

(PS. Of the ten countries with the fewest Covid deaths per 100,000 (to date), only one - Taiwan - has a female leader. I doubt the sex of the leaders has much to do with it, but there it is.)

 

[Wozza]

This is really dangerous.
Lot's of people are interested in activism. They are concerned about issues that don't purely relate directly to them.
People should be outraged about things- what exactly is wrong about being outraged about violence on women, about racism, about austerity, about trans rights, about poverty, about tax dodgers etc etc?

It was supposed to be a 'vigil', not a 'protest'.

The event blatently attracted agitators. There were chants of "Who killed Sarah? You killed Sarah!", aimed at Met Police. *cringe*

But, again, I would have let the Reclaim These Streets event go ahead, personally. The organisers seem decent to me.

 

[clapham_gull]

It was supposed to be a 'vigil', not a 'protest'.

The event blatently attracted agitators. There were chants of "Who killed Sarah? You killed Sarah!", aimed at Met Police. *cringe*

But, again, I would have let the Reclaim These Streets event go ahead, personally. The organisers seem decent to me.

Exactly.

Which is what a number on here are missing. The "event" had nothing to do with the original one and clearly wouldn't have taken place if the Police hadn't walked away from discussions.

As for chants at the Police, absolutely nothing compared to what was dished out the two unlucky officers who had to stand outside Stockwell Tube station the next day.

 

[The Clamp]

well they certainly stopped their right to assemble in an almost fascist display of authority,they have done their image no good whatsoever.

There’s nothing good about what happened.

 

[e77]

Again the problem I have with this is all with the timing - I appreciate the cause but why couldn't they have waited a couple of months until the lockdown is eased?

The tragic murders of Ellie Gould in 2019, Tracey Kidd last year or Kelly Stewart all made the news but there were no protests when these murders occured. Were they any less important?

I think the profession of the person arrested and charged for doing it has some bearing on it. Plus, not that this should make the slightest bit of difference but in the real world it does, it was a white woman in London in an area easily accessible by most of the countries journalists.

At some point the national consensus over lockdown was going to strain. We need to all obey the rules for a couple of months to allow the vaccine to be delivered but after that they need to be rolled back post haste.

 

[e77]

Perhaps. How do we really know what is going on? You and I have the luxury of calling things from a cosy armchair as see things. Even with a women in charge it seems this is still not enough for many. With all the challenges in an unprecedented period. Part of the problem today is more than ever everyone believes they have a voice and a right for it to be heard. On everything. However, doesn’t mean it’s worth listening to. On that basis I’m happy to let the professionals, with years of experience in their chosen career, to make the call. That and they’re voted in by us to make the decisions.

We live in a democracy and have the right to question decisions made by those in authority, either elected or appointed. For years no one thought it possible South Yorkshire Police could possibly have got it wrong at Hillsborough but people kept questioning and it was proved they made major mistakes.

 

[Wozza]

Plus, not that this should make the slightest bit of difference but in the real world it does, it was a white woman in London in an area easily accessible by most of the countries journalists.

Sarah was in marketing. Her friends and colleagues were quick to mobilise, and easily able to get the attention of media.

 

[clapham_gull]

Sarah was in marketing. Her friends and colleagues were quick to mobilise, and easily able to get the attention of media.

It was completely unprecedented.

They had the local area covered with professional looking missing posters before last weekend, all the way along the route she walked

The police could learn a lot from their approach.

 

[Half Time Pies]

If you are wondering why violent crime is a problem in this country then it might be worth reading this tweet by the Secret Barrister about the difficulties in getting a case of domestic abuse to court in our current legal system due to years of underfunding. https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/1371030760501747712?s=20

I wonder if all these frustrations are being vented in the wrong direction, perhaps we should be asking the government why violent crimes are not being adequately investigated and prosecuted and why you never see a policeman out on the streets anymore. Is it any wonder that we as a society are feeling more fearful when there has never been a better time to be a criminal and to be violent and get away with it.

As the author says the government needs to fund police, prosecutors, refuges, courts, probation - do something about investigation, detection, prosecution and prevention and then we might all start to feel a bit safer.

 

[portlock seagull]

We live in a democracy and have the right to question decisions made by those in authority, either elected or appointed. For years no one thought it possible South Yorkshire Police could possibly have got it wrong at Hillsborough but people kept questioning and it was proved they made major mistakes.

Utterly disproportionate comparison. Sorry, but you’ve lost me with that. Goodnight.

 

[sydney]

You're absolutely right here.
But, the problem is people are at breaking point. It's unprecedented times and people are angry about many things. This was, for many women, the final straw on the camels back. Every body knew this was going to be a well attended, highly emotive event.
The police knew that. They mishandled it.

you could also be as cynical as to say they wanted it to happen to rush through these tougher anti protest laws...

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

The common is massive and the selection of the band stand for the subsequent protect was quite arbitrary to be honest. Something (under the circumstances) could have been organised.

A minutes silence was planned and negotiations were taking place between all interested parties. At the last minute the Met pulled out and said they would fine the organisers £10,000 each if the event went ahead.

This was challenged in court, but all the Judge did was decide not to intervene and said they should continue discussions.

It centred around what was a reasonable excuse to leave the house and whether anyone attending were actually "meeting up".

So the official event was cancelled but wasn't deemed "illegal" as some on here have suggested. It's the job of the Police to upheld the law, not decide by themselves what's illegal or not.

So the Met ended up with a very predictable disorganised and at times "angry" (but not violent) event on their hands. Any fines handed out "meaningless" because Crowd Funding had been pre-organised to pay them.

I disagreed with the event in the first place, but when it became obvious something was gonna happen anyway, the Police should have continued discussions.

They didn't and have ended up with another huge PR disaster on their hands for their reaction.

Sorry, I still don’t believe it would have stayed as a social distanced event even with the best intentions, plus you then have the getting to and from the event - given the rules we currently have anything above meeting 1 person outside is deemed not to be covid secure hundreds of people using public transport isn’t.

As I have mentioned I don’t think they should have stopped the vigil/protest or any protest for that matter - but given the covid rules they had to and if they make an exception for this it’s shows bias.

The judge also refused to make a declaration that an alleged policy by the Metropolitan Police of “prohibiting all protests, irrespective of the specific circumstances” is unlawful. - He clearly wanted nothing to do with this.



The Covid Rules in place say any mass gathering is not allowed, the judge on Friday didn’t want to touch it and put out a ruling in which both sides claim they won.

The Police are getting all the blame here, when it’s the MPs that have put them in this position.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Hitler was appointed Chancellor by President Hindenburg and when Hindenburg died, Hitler appointed himself President.

You’re right that the Nazi party won votes in 1933. At the time, female voters slightly outnumbered male voters but were as likely as men to vote Nazi.

(PS. Of the ten countries with the fewest Covid deaths per 100,000 (to date), only one - Taiwan - has a female leader. I doubt the sex of the leaders has much to do with it, but there it is.)

Congratulations. You win the NSC Historical Pedants prize for the day for your services to splitting hairs, subject changing and choosing the statistical measure that suits your agenda (as a side note please Google New Zealand).

In your acceptance speech could you please explain why the Alt Right is trying to deflect conversation on this topic and take it down the sorts of rabbit holes you've chosen above instead of just condemning attacks on innocent women and the dreadful policing of a VIGIL as even The Daily Mail and The Sun have done this morning?