Missing Woman in London

[portlock seagull]

Don't think you saw my question about any of those groups protesting having a member murdered in the last couple of weeks which a serving Metropolitan Police officer was subsequently charged with? Also if they were that bothered about Covid spreading why did they kettle them?

But never mind. It's just most BAME communities and now Women who don't trust the Police. Us white men can still walk down the street safely and be left alone by them and that's the main thing. Thank god we have the brave Police to be able to protect us from the likes of this 5 feet 2 woman it took several officers to get to the floor and handcuff before dragging into a van - which in no way looked bad after the events of the last week - only to ask her name and details before letting her go without charge.

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Hang on. This is standard procedure for many arrests. Plenty young black men will see this as refreshing evidence that young white women are treated no differently. Of course you’d be screaming racist in the former situation so as plenty of others have already said and any officer will tell you, they simply cannot win. It’s a shame people like you pick and choose your support for the police in the same way people applaud our NHS and then spread covid because they feel entitled to do what they want.

 

[Napper]

the protestors are a disgrace , same lw lot that are all over everything

 

[Poojah]

other protesters have been afforded the right to assemble during the pandemic ...!!! over 70 000 at Trafalgar Sq the other week to hear David Ike's speech ...BLM were afforded the right to march and protest....!!! having said that this vigil has obviously been hijacked by people with different agenda.

Yeah, the hijacking of an innocent’s girl’s death for political purposes makes me very uncomfortable, as does the persecution of men following this tragic event. There’s a real danger of the victim of this terrible crime being forgotten amongst the prevailing madness.

The last decade has seen a big shift in terms of gender equality, and rightly so. I am not perfect - there are jokes and comments I might have made around the office in 2011 that I wouldn’t in 2021. But let’s not pretend that the fairer sex aren’t as capable of misandry as men are of misogyny.

I have a mother, a sister, a wife and a daughter. My two grandmothers, long since passed, were a major part of my upbringing. Women have been, and remain, a huge part of my life. I love women, four of them in particular. I can say with confidence that is not within me to attack, rape or murder a woman. To that end, nor would I strike out at another man for any other reason than self defence or the protection of my family.

I believe most men, most people are like me. We are not inherently violent creatures. The murder of Sarah Everard was the work of psychosis, not masculinity. Whether there’s a social solution to this I don’t know, but treating all men as prospective rapists and murderers isn’t it.

 

[Insel affe]

the protestors are a disgrace , same lw lot that are all over everything

Have a word with yourself....

 

[e77]

Language is really important. I’ve heard Jess Philips talking about the Met putting the ‘boot in’, you’re using ‘snatching’, heard another woman talking about women being ‘thrown’ to the ground. It’s all irresponsible hyperbole and fans the flames. One clip I saw was female officers trying to contain women protesters, yet they’re accused of ‘manhandling’ ironically - are they to be criticised for doing their job? The police are not the enemy here, some sick man is and for all we know he might be mentally ill from years of stress policing London's streets. We’ll have to wait and see I guess.

Speaking as someone who spends a lot of time round the left, if you think the backing of BLM was full on you really haven't seen anything until you get on the wrong side of the women on the left.

Like everything with the Police someone is giving out the orders and the officers on the ground have to obey them and I am assuming the officers on duty didn't just do it because they were bored on a Saturday night. Bearing in mind the emotions involved at the moment I would be amazed if Cressida Dick in consultation with the Home Secretary didn't decide the Policing strategy. Sorry but they either got it wrong or didn't adjust plans as the day progressed.

To avoid legal problems I will speak in general terms. Anyone in the Diplomatic Protection Squad is presumably fire armed trained (and if not very close to VIPs)? They would initially be background checked including psychological tests, which would be repeated. I would suggest that process needs hastily reviewing.

I know they should be above politics but what happened last night has weakened the hand of the police and government enforcing lockdown. Everyone should be equal in the eyes of the law but cracking down on a few yummy mummies in Clapham where the future Queen of England visited a few hours before is going to make more of an impact on Middle England than fining Rangers fans or Piers Corbyn. That's just a fact and someone should have considered it before yesterday evening because what happened was entirely predictable.

 

[e77]

So now covid respects those that have a rightful cause? If this was any other group it would be in the covidiots group already.

Have you been equally as outraged at those groups mentioned above?

The law is the issue here and people have been cheering on this sort of strict behaviour all year and now are upset because it’s affecting a cause they (and I support)

Ive already said it was a mess and the police went ott, but under the current regulations under mass gatherings they shouldn’t have been there.

Ultimately lockdown restrictions only work with the consent of the people and what the Met did last night, rightly or wrongly, has weakened that consent. It is all very well saying the law is the law but as I said elsewhere it happening to several yummy mummies in Clapham is going to be looked at differently to Rangers fans (as all football fans are scum) or Piers Corbyn (because he is a lunatic). This shouldn't be the case but you know as well as i do it is and someone in authority should have considered it.

Other Police forces seemed to deal with it ok, including Sussex. They now have to enforce these restrictions for another three months with a fairly massive crack put in the consent by what happened last night.

 

[vagabond]

you're pro lockdown , plenty aren't se post above.

It’s not pro lockdown at all. It’s entirely the opposite. We’re approaching the end of this one and I do not want another nationwide lockdown.

I don’t want to covid to spread, i don’t want more people to die. I want everyone’s lives to go back to normal. To go to weddings and funerals, to have jobs to go back to and for our economy to recover. This is in all of interests.

That’s why it’s vital people play their part and respect lockdown and social distancing. We’re almost there, let’s not jeopardise it now.

 

[Cotton Socks]

I find the saddest thing, is the simple fact that a woman has been murdered.
What then turned into a discussion on media about women's fears of walking alone, morphed into suggestions of men being curfewed (Jenny Jones has said it was to make a point, not a serious suggestion). There have been suggestions of chipping people ffs.
On this thread (and others) what started off as a conversation how to make women and everyone else feel safer when walking alone, is turning into an argument about Covid laws and the rights to protest or have a vigil.
I can't think of anything that would stop someone murdering, attacking or raping someone. It seems that even people with extensive knowledge of how police investigations work, could perhaps think they could find a way around being caught. Not much will stop someone that has that instinct (not the right word) inside them, doing such a thing.
What we can all do, is make everyone else feel safer so that people walking alone don't feel that they are going to be attacked. Cross the road if someone is on their own, and carry on your journey, no need to speak to them or try and reassure them that they are safe, just keep walking & pretend they are not there.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Ultimately lockdown restrictions only work with the consent of the people and what the Met did last night, rightly or wrongly, has weakened that consent. It is all very well saying the law is the law but as I said elsewhere it happening to several yummy mummies in Clapham is going to be looked at differently to Rangers fans (as all football fans are scum) or Piers Corbyn (because he is a lunatic). This shouldn't be the case but you know as well as i do it is and someone in authority should have considered it.

Other Police forces seemed to deal with it ok, including Sussex. They now have to enforce these restrictions for another three months with a fairly massive crack put in the consent by what happened last night.

I think we actually agree on the right to protest and last night should have been allowed.

We are just coming from different angles of why it didn’t and why it’s wrong

 

[portlock seagull]

Speaking as someone who spends a lot of time round the left, if you think the backing of BLM was full on you really haven't seen anything until you get on the wrong side of the women on the left.

Like everything with the Police someone is giving out the orders and the officers on the ground have to obey them and I am assuming the officers on duty didn't just do it because they were bored on a Saturday night. Bearing in mind the emotions involved at the moment I would be amazed if Cressida Dick in consultation with the Home Secretary didn't decide the Policing strategy. Sorry but they either got it wrong or didn't adjust plans as the day progressed.

To avoid legal problems I will speak in general terms. Anyone in the Diplomatic Protection Squad is presumably fire armed trained (and if not very close to VIPs)? They would initially be background checked including psychological tests, which would be repeated. I would suggest that process needs hastily reviewing.

I know they should be above politics but what happened last night has weakened the hand of the police and government enforcing lockdown. Everyone should be equal in the eyes of the law but cracking down on a few yummy mummies in Clapham where the future Queen of England visited a few hours before is going to make more of an impact on Middle England than fining Rangers fans or Piers Corbyn. That's just a fact and someone should have considered it before yesterday evening because what happened was entirely predictable.

If something’s deemed predictable, it shouldn’t necessarily alter the planned responsive action. Lines have to be drawn. Warnings are given. Then an individuals choice as to whether ignore or not. Happens every day to all of us. Especially when it comes to the law of the land. Other laws I tend to take notice of include Mother Nature, Physics, Chemistry and Sod’s. I always fall foul of the latter.

 

[portlock seagull]

I find the saddest thing, is the simple fact that a woman has been murdered.
What then turned into a discussion on media about women's fears of walking alone, morphed into suggestions of men being curfewed (Jenny Jones has said it was to make a point, not a serious suggestion). There have been suggestions of chipping people ffs.
On this thread (and others) what started off as a conversation how to make women and everyone else feel safer when walking alone, is turning into an argument about Covid laws and the rights to protest or have a vigil.
I can't think of anything that would stop someone murdering, attacking or raping someone. It seems that even people with extensive knowledge of how police investigations work, could perhaps think they could find a way around being caught. Not much will stop someone that has that instinct (not the right word) inside them, doing such a thing.
What we can all do, is make everyone else feel safer so that people walking alone don't feel that they are going to be attacked. Cross the road if someone is on their own, and carry on your journey, no need to speak to them or try and reassure them that they are safe, just keep walking & pretend they are not there.

Had to remind my wife last night that the group of people most at risk of random violence on the streets are young men. It’s a terrible thing what happened to this lady. And you’re right it seems to been hijacked to point of extreme or stupid suggestions. Men, generally, aren’t dangerous. Some men, generally, are extremely dangerous. Always have been. Always will be. I cannot see how this can ever or will ever change. Last night some women could be said to have behaved lethally. Because they may have passed on covid leading to death of someone. We will never know. But it’s a real possibility. Which is why it was banned. Our own sentiments about the right to protest aren’t appropriate at the mo. Just ask any of the 100k+ families devastated by covid deaths.

 

[e77]

I think we actually agree on the right to protest and last night should have been allowed.

We are just coming from different angles of why it didn’t and why it’s wrong

It's quite easy for us all to come up with alternatives now but open aired protests with heavily restricted numbers and people spaced out could have been permitted it the local Police had the capacity. I am led to believe the Reclaim These Streets organisers - who did actual cancel their protests last night - offered to do it by shifts with Covid Marshalls.

Problem is the professional protest goers who attach themselves to all protests probably wouldn't have followed the rules.

 

[e77]

If something’s deemed predictable, it shouldn’t necessarily alter the planned responsive action. Lines have to be drawn. Warnings are given. Then an individuals choice as to whether ignore or not. Happens every day to all of us. Especially when it comes to the law of the land. Other laws I tend to take notice of include Mother Nature, Physics, Chemistry and Sod’s. I always fall foul of the latter.

They could have done a lot more and they failed to read the room. The Met has it's first woman Commissioner who really could have been on the scene yesterday talking to people.

Regardless the upcoming trial and no doubt numerous investigations into the Met's handling of events before and after Sarah Everard's murder are likely to be very uncomfortable for the Police and further damage trust in them, especially amongst women. Policing is a two way street and this has probably made victims of domestic violence think twice about reporting incidents.

This will rumble on long after Covid restrictions are removed.

 

[Gabbafella]

Bunch of people protesting outside the police station in Brighton at the moment, one with a sign saying "police are murderers, they're supposed to protect us."
I think some people just live to be offended by everything life has to offer.

 

[ozzygull]

Had to remind my wife last night that the group of people most at risk of random violence on the streets are young men. It’s a terrible thing what happened to this lady. And you’re right it seems to been hijacked to point of extreme or stupid suggestions. Men, generally, aren’t dangerous. Some men, generally, are extremely dangerous. Always have been. Always will be. I cannot see how this can ever or will ever change. Last night some women could be said to have behaved lethally. Because they may have passed on covid leading to death of someone. We will never know. But it’s a real possibility. Which is why it was banned. Our own sentiments about the right to protest aren’t appropriate at the mo. Just ask any of the 100k+ families devastated by covid deaths.

Hopefully your wife informed you that it is bloody awful that young men are targeted and at risk of random violence (I am not being flippant), but this is more about the fact women are not even safe in their own home and are also much more under threat of sexual violence which seems to go unpunished as well as the fact we are to told to change our behaviour instead of the perpetrators. Sometimes enough is enough. If it was in normal times I would protesting against it, I know protesting will not change these monsters, but sometimes not doing anything and just excepting it feels almost like condoning it.

 

[Cotton Socks]

Had to remind my wife last night that the group of people most at risk of random violence on the streets are young men. It’s a terrible thing what happened to this lady. And you’re right it seems to been hijacked to point of extreme or stupid suggestions. Men, generally, aren’t dangerous. Some men, generally, are extremely dangerous. Always have been. Always will be. I cannot see how this can ever or will ever change. Last night some women could be said to have behaved lethally. Because they may have passed on covid leading to death of someone. We will never know. But it’s a real possibility. Which is why it was banned. Our own sentiments about the right to protest aren’t appropriate at the mo. Just ask any of the 100k+ families devastated by covid deaths.

Yes you are right about the stats and way back in this thread I had a conversation with [MENTION=27279]dazzer6666[/MENTION] how he would pay for either of his kids for an Uber home rather than them walk. I have 2 boys and if they're later than what they say they will be home, I worry! I worry that they may have been attacked and been beaten up, even though I know it's unlikely. I also think to myself about how one punch can kill, even though that is unlikely as well. If I had a daughter, my mind would be straight to rape and/or murder. That's not right!!

However, in your reply to me, you eventually went back to the rights and wrongs of the protest/vigil. I'm categorically on the fence about that, I can see all sides. The fact is though, this thread (along with thousands of others) has derailed from what small things we can do to make others feel safe in 'normal' times. I completely understand that these are not 'normal' times but next month we can be back in a pub. What small steps are everyone going to take to make the lone person walking home feel safer? As someone else said, we've been conditioned into fear of walking alone but the stats don't match up with the fear.

 

[e77]

Once the, absolutely understandable, anger about Sarah Everard subsides a bit I think we all need to delve into real world experience and the statistics a bit. As men we need to realise that women are having a terrible experience from some men too often when the leave the house either when walking somewhere, on public transport, at work, the pub (when they open) or other places. Thankfully this rarely leads to murder (although one murder is one murder enough) but men need to get used to the idea that verbal harassment, groping and making women nervous has had it's day (if indeed it ever did).

However if we look at the relationship between victim and murderer (source) you can see that women are much more likely to know their murderer, which suggests domestic incidents with nearly half of murders being caused by partners, ex-partners or family members against about 1 in 12 for men.



Both of these are unacceptable and should require soul searching from men, but the whole narrative about women solely being at risk from men jumping on them from behind the bushes is incorrect and a bit dangerous (and means having a curfew where men can't leave the home is actually quite dangerous).

 

[METALMICKY]

Yeah, the hijacking of an innocent’s girl’s death for political purposes makes me very uncomfortable, as does the persecution of men following this tragic event. There’s a real danger of the victim of this terrible crime being forgotten amongst the prevailing madness.

The last decade has seen a big shift in terms of gender equality, and rightly so. I am not perfect - there are jokes and comments I might have made around the office in 2011 that I wouldn’t in 2021. But let’s not pretend that the fairer sex aren’t as capable of misandry as men are of misogyny.

I have a mother, a sister, a wife and a daughter. My two grandmothers, long since passed, were a major part of my upbringing. Women have been, and remain, a huge part of my life. I love women, four of them in particular. I can say with confidence that is not within me to attack, rape or murder a woman. To that end, nor would I strike out at another man for any other reason than self defence or the protection of my family.

I believe most men, most people are like me. We are not inherently violent creatures. The murder of Sarah Everard was the work of psychosis, not masculinity. Whether there’s a social solution to this I don’t know, but treating all men as prospective rapists and murderers isn’t it.

Nicely summed up.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

the protestors are a disgrace , same lw lot that are all over everything

I'm glad women got arrested a hundred years ago and made a real nuisance of themselves breaking the law.
It meant I could have a vote.

Protests work.

 

[Justice]

It’s not pro lockdown at all. It’s entirely the opposite. We’re approaching the end of this one and I do not want another nationwide lockdown.

I don’t want to covid to spread, i don’t want more people to die. I want everyone’s lives to go back to normal. To go to weddings and funerals, to have jobs to go back to and for our economy to recover. This is in all of interests.

That’s why it’s vital people play their part and respect lockdown and social distancing. We’re almost there, let’s not jeopardise it now.

He means you agree with the lockdown and all the rules that come with it, pro lockdown.