[News] Middle East conflict

[SeagullinExile]

I’m at a loss to understand why the US and UK will shoot down Iranian missiles, but won’t shoot down Russian missiles fired at Ukraine. Double standards. It’s a disgrace.

 

[Zeberdi]

I’m at a loss to understand why the US and UK will shoot down Iranian missiles, but won’t shoot down Russian missiles fired at Ukraine. Double standards. It’s a disgrace.

Wrong thread but …

Calls Grow For NATO Members To Help Ukraine Shoot Down Russian Drones And Missiles

Last week, Latvia and Romania, NATO members, reported Russian military drones violated their countries' airspace. NATO has said taking military action in such cases, would draw the military alliance into Russia's war against Ukraine. Does that policy risk emboldening Russian leader Vladimir Putin?

www.rferl.org

 

[A1X]

I’m at a loss to understand why the US and UK will shoot down Iranian missiles, but won’t shoot down Russian missiles fired at Ukraine. Double standards. It’s a disgrace.

I think a large part of it is because Iran’s mad leader doesn’t have access to enough nuclear warheads to obliterate the planet whereas Russia’s mad leader does, so the tightrope to walk is thinner.

 

[SeagullinExile]

I think a large part of it is because Iran’s mad leader doesn’t have access to enough nuclear warheads to obliterate the planet whereas Russia’s mad leader does, so the tightrope to walk is thinner.

As I said. Double standards.

 

[Triggaaar]

I’m at a loss to understand why the US and UK will shoot down Iranian missiles, but won’t shoot down Russian missiles fired at Ukraine. Double standards. It’s a disgrace.

Iran doesn't share a border with Israel, so there is opportunity for the US and UK to position themselves in the middle and shoot down missiles. They obviously can't move into Ukraine without becoming directly involved in the conflict. What they have done is to provide Ukraine with weapons to shoot down many of the missiles, so it's essentially doing the same thing.

 

[GingerBeerMan]

Israel can’t do it alone. Iran is a massive Country and these facilities would mostly be deep underground afaia.

Since my earlier post today, the idea that this is building up to a conflict where Western allies with Israel take out Iran’s nuclear facilities seems to have become a ‘thing’ in MSN this evening for the first time, it might be on the agenda.

I think we should be under no doubt at all, that if this conflict in Gaza and now Lebanon, is a deliberate pre-curser to the West doing this, or even just mission creep - Israel has started so lets carry on (which I suggested might be the case back last October) - then we in the UK would be heading full on into war. The mission won’t be ‘defending Israel, nor will it be helping to get rid of Hezbollah in Lebanon (that won’t get the support of the UK public) , I believe it will be attacking Iran - ‘destroying Iran’s WMDs’. Sounds familiar?

The only peaceful resolution to prevent a war with Iran now (because this is gathering its own momentum, I think), would be if Iran came back to the table and signed a new Nuclear Non-Proliferation Deal with the US. That won’t happen if Trump wins the Election because he is pro-Netanyahu and Netanyahu imo has shown no indication that he wants peace with Hezbollah or Iran - but every indication he wants them gone.

A really interesting article which will answer your question specifically and how difficult it would be

Iran vs. Israel redux: The enormous difficulties and ramifications if Israel attacks Iran's nuclear sites

After Israel's attack, the Iranian regime may see the actual weaponization of its nuclear program as the only option left that can guarantee its security.

thebulletin.org

Imagine a US invasion on the pretext of WMDs. Would it be over as quickly as the Iraqi invasion, or does Iran have a lot better defences than Sadam had?

 

[SeagullinExile]

Iran doesn't share a border with Israel, so there is opportunity for the US and UK to position themselves in the middle and shoot down missiles. They obviously can't move into Ukraine without becoming directly involved in the conflict. What they have done is to provide Ukraine with weapons to shoot down many of the missiles, so it's essentially doing the same thing.

We should agree to disagree on this. We could and should of put a no fly zone in place over Ukrainian airspace. Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is far more of a danger to us than anything Iran does to Israel. The people of Ukraine need our direct help, Israel doesn’t.

 

[borat]

 

[Insel affe]

Disgusting, Israel is making a long term rod for it's own back, these children and people will grow up with hatred in their hearts against Israel, in the future this will come back to haunt them, peace will never come to this region.

I would never forget or forgive, the circle goes around and around on both sides.

 

[jcdenton08]

Go home Israel, you’re drunk

 

[GingerBeerMan]

these people will grow up

I think this is precisely what Israel is trying to avoid..

 

[nicko31]

Disgusting, Israel is making a long term rod for it's own back, these people will grow up with hatred in their hearts against Israel, in the future this will come back to haunt them, peace will never come to this region.

I would never forget or forgive, the circle goes around and around on both sides.

What I feel really disappointing is the lack the condemnation from our government, the US and other western governments. This is surely a war crime nothing else...

 

[Triggaaar]

We could and should of put a no fly zone in place over Ukrainian airspace.

I would like that, but it would involve shooting Russian air defence systems on Russian soil, and shooting down Russian planes (and having our plans shot down by them). That's a direct fight with Russia, which is quite an escalation with unknown consequences. If we're firing missiles at Russian (which is what you're advocating) then why wouldn't they fire missiles at London? Is that what we want, to protect a country which isn't in NATO?

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is far more of a danger to us than anything Iran does to Israel. The people of Ukraine need our direct help, Israel doesn’t.

I agree and we've given them far more help than we're giving Israel.

 

[SeagullinExile]

This is sickening. I’m genuinely beginning to feel hatred towards Israel. All the time our government does as says nothing, they are complicit in this genocide as far as I’m concerned.

 

[Zeberdi]

The Jews have lived in that part of the world for thousands of years, predating other current faiths and as long as any other race. After being mass murdered in pogroms for 2,000 years they started returned to their homeland before WW2, the Holocaust the final understandable jolt.

To me the problems predate the lazy blame the UK in 1945 argument. There was a growing murder Jews movement in the Middle East pre WW2.

Iran - a disgusting regime that murders dissenters, organised rape and murder by the police of women, women treated like dirt. In an alliance with Russia and North Korea to murder Ukrainians. With no connection to events in Israel, Iran have for years often attacked global shipping.

I'm pro anything to stop their missiles, including attacking the source.

Finally, I believe in a two state solution.

I agree with most of this ( except having a full out war with Iran - I think that should be avoided if at all possible.)

I also don’t think we can begin to understand the dynamics of the current conflict without recognising that the Palestinians also have a history alongside the one outlined above, that presents a very different narrative and is also one that involves being victims of terrorism, illegal occupation, being dispossessed of their homes, apartheid and oppression and being murdered for dissent. Rape of women and girls in military detention, enforced starvation and mass killings.

I‘m pro anything that will stop the missiles from both sides.

I also support a two state solution.

 

[SeagullinExile]

Lebanese solider killed while evacuating casualties with Red Cross, says armypublished at 12:32 British Summer Time
12:32 BST​

The Lebanese army says one of its soldiers was killed, and another injured, when they were hit by Israeli forces in southern Lebanon.

The incident happened as the army and Lebanese Red Cross were evacuating casualties from the village Al Taybeh, the army says.

We'll bring you more details about this incident as we get them.

It seems the invaders are targeting the Lebanese Army now. They really seem to want this conflict to escalate don’t they?

 

[Bakero]

No expert but here's what I know:

Hezbollah is both a political and military organisation which was formed during the Lebanese civil war. Formed from various Shiite groups, they were aligned with Iran since day one. Within Lebanon they have decent support from the Shia Muslim population but are viewed negatively by many. That said, they're a major player in the Lebanese political scene. In terms of militants, I believe they're mostly Lebanese but there may well be foreign militants.

Like I said, they've been backed by Iran since their Inception. Both Hezbollah and Iran share strategic goals as well as religion (both represent Shia Muslims).

The Lebanese diaspora greatly outnumbers the internal population and most of them are Christian. Interreligious tension predates Hezbollah though and was a factor in the civil war.

As for the British, no idea. Lots of people of Lebanese descent in the UK though, many of whom are Christian. Not a surprise that some had returned to live or visit.

Just to add to this comment on their popularity; I just heard (on the Rest is Politics) that in a recent poll just 12% of Lebanese said they identified with Hezbollah. Discounting Shia Muslims (who make up just under 30% of the population), it dropped to ~1%. However, just checked, and they got almost 20% of the popular vote at the last election.

 

[Zeberdi]

Paramedics killed by Israeli Army in Lebanon

Israel-Iran war latest: Israel ‘considering attack on Iran’s oil facilities’

Israel is considering an attack on Iran’s oil facilities, Joe Biden has said.

www.telegraph.co.uk

Hezbollah in Lebanon

https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF10703

 

[GingerBeerMan]

Paramedics killed by Israeli Army in Lebanon

Israel-Iran war latest: Israel ‘considering attack on Iran’s oil facilities’

Israel is considering an attack on Iran’s oil facilities, Joe Biden has said.

www.telegraph.co.uk

Hezbollah in Lebanon

https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF10703

I asked if Iran would pose a tougher foe that Sadam Hussain, you seem pretty clued up. Any idea?

 

[Zeberdi]

I asked if Iran would pose a tougher foe that Sadam Hussain, you seem pretty clued up. Any idea?

I’m really not clued up more than anyone else

I posted a link above to a very good article - I’ll post it again - it answers any questions about the enormous difficulties and implications of trying to take out Iran’s nuclear facilities.

Iran vs. Israel redux: The enormous difficulties and ramifications if Israel attacks Iran's nuclear sites

After Israel's attack, the Iranian regime may see the actual weaponization of its nuclear program as the only option left that can guarantee its security.

thebulletin.org

Hopefully it won’t come to it but Netanyahus could have taken his playbook straight from the words of GWB:

States like these and their terrorist allies constitute an axis of evil, arming to threaten the peace of the world. By seeking weapons of mass destruction, these regimes pose a grave and growing danger…. We'll be deliberate; yet, time is not on our side. I will not wait on events while dangers gather. I will not stand by as peril draws closer and closer. The United States of America will not permit the world's most dangerous regimes to threaten us with the world's most destructive weapons.

-- President George W. Bush, State of the Union, January 29, 2002