[News] Middle East conflict

[JetsetJimbo]

I hold a lot of contempt for men who justify their violence by saying "look what you made me do".

I also hold a lot of contempt for states that do the same thing.

 

[Zeberdi]

I've been lucky enough to visit Israel a couple of times. From my limited observations, they clearly believe in the vengeful God, not the nice God. But then Hamas already knew that

That is an outrageous characterisation of Jewish people in Israel… It is also theologically incorrect and a christo-centric interpretation of the Old Testament.

You really should familiarise yourself with the subject matter before making such sweeping assumptions about a faith and culture with which you have had little experience.

Vengeance | Ha’azinu | Covenant & Conversation | The Rabbi Sacks Legacy

Read Rabbi Jonathan Sacks' Torah reflections on Ha’azinu Vengeance in Covenant and Conversation.

rabbisacks.org

As for Israel - I don’t know how many times it needs to be said on this thread but most of the Jews living in Israel are either secular with no religious belief or don’t practice their faith and the weekly polling says the majority do NOT support Netanyahu or his conduct of the war. They believe he is leading Israel into an existential crisis with its Arab neighbours and will not get the hostages out alive.

Heck, not even his coalition opposition leader, Gantz, supported his prolonging the war like this and resigned from Netanyahu’s war cabinet last month.

What is going on in Gaza is nothing to do with the majority of Jewish people in Israel wanting revenge or believing in some ‘fictitious God of Vengeance’ but an agenda by a hard line right wing prime minister who in a desperate grab to power, is being willingly hogtied by far right Religious Zionists ( who represent about 12% of the population) to extend the existing 1948 boundaries of the Israeli State - to include from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea thus absorbing the Palestinian Territories of the West Bank and Gaza.

Netanyahu is perfectly willing to risk a war with Hezbollah in Lebanon to that end. Which leader does not have the interests of his people at heart?

Neither do.

These images of dying and dead children are a humanitarian tragedy as is the continual bombardment and enforced starvation of the population as a whole - there’s no need to qualify it or add whatabouteries, justifications or excuses for any of it.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

That is an outrageous characterisation of Jewish people in Israel… It is also theologically incorrect and a christo-centric interpretation of the Old Testament.

You really should familiarise yourself with the subject matter before making such sweeping assumptions about a faith and culture with which you have had little experience.

Vengeance | Ha’azinu | Covenant & Conversation | The Rabbi Sacks Legacy

Read Rabbi Jonathan Sacks' Torah reflections on Ha’azinu Vengeance in Covenant and Conversation.

rabbisacks.org

As for Israel - I don’t know how many times it needs to be said on this thread but most of the Jews living in Israel are either secular with no religious belief or don’t practice their faith and the weekly polling says the majority do NOT support Netanyahu or his conduct of the war. They believe he is leading Israel into an existential crisis with its Arab neighbours and will not get the hostages out alive.

Heck, not even his coalition opposition leader, Gantz, supported his prolonging the war like this and resigned from Netanyahu’s war cabinet last month.

What is going on in Gaza is nothing to do with the majority of Jewish people in Israel wanting revenge or believing in some ‘fictitious God of Vengeance’ but an agenda by a hard line right wing prime minister who in a desperate grab to power, is being willingly hogtied by far right Religious Zionists ( who represent about 12% of the population) to extend the existing 1948 boundaries of the Israeli State - to include from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea thus absorbing the Palestinian Territories of the West Bank and Gaza.

Netanyahu is perfectly willing to risk a war with Hezbollah in Lebanon to that end. Which leader does not have the interests of his people at heart?

Neither do.

These images of dying and dead children are a humanitarian tragedy as is the continual bombardment and enforced starvation of the population as a whole - there’s no need to qualify it or add whatabouteries, justifications or excuses for any of it.

Can only say as I found, on airlines, staying in houses of families with kids in the IDF and meeting random folk. I'd wager my few words are more representative of the feeling on the ground than your learned treatise. Nobody of any religion, creed or whatever ever in Israel treated me with anything than how I hoped to be treated ie minor commercial hustle and absolutely human level of one-on-one interaction

 

[Zeberdi]

Can only say as I found, on airlines, staying in houses of families with kids in the IDF and meeting random folk. I'd wager my few words are more representative of the feeling on the ground than your learned treatise. Nobody of any religion, creed or whatever ever in Israel treated me with anything than how I hoped to be treated ie minor commercial hustle and absolutely human level of one-on-one interaction

I have been to Israel as you have and but have also studied law with Israel students for 3 years and theology - but unlike you, I grew up in a Jewish family surrounded by Jewish friends with both grandparents Holocaust survivors - I am Jewish so please don’t lecture me on Judaistic theology - I grew up with this stuff ffs and experience it daily in my life.

Your characterisation of the Jewish people believing in a ‘vengeful God, not a nice one’ is frankly antisemitic especially when you try and conflate that with the reason Palestine people are being subjected to torture, terror, mass punishments and starvation.

If any of the Jewish people, secular or otherwise, feel revengeful of Hamas’s attacks over the decades, it is because they are human and they have lost loved ones primarily in the IDF because of decades of conflict…the massacre in particular understandably triggered a major military response (as did 9/11) but that has nothing to do with Judaism.

Taking revenge is prohibited in Judaism

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1842551/jewish/What-Does-Judaism-Say-About-Taking-Revenge.htm#:~:text=Taking%2520revenge%2520is%2520prohibited%2520in%2520Judaism.&text=Rather%252C%2520Maimonides%2520continues%252C%2520if%2520someone,%E2%80%9D(7%253A5).

I am glad you had human interaction by those Jewish people you met btw.

Anyway, all this is doing is turning the discussion away from what is important here: the shocking videos posted above of those poor kids lying in the dust on a war torn Gazan street. It’s horrific and I agree that Hamas is equally responsible in failing to agree to a precipitous peaceful end to this conflict as is Netanyahu.

 

[Bakero]

Forget 9 months, Israel's actions over decades have been disgusting and our government is complicit.

You don't have to tell me.

 

[armchairclubber]

Another Day. Another Massacre.

UK Govt. must end licences for arms sales to Israel and end its complicity in this Genocide immediately.

 

[armchairclubber]

Proud moment for the Impartial Brit representing colonialism & meeting 'war criminal' Netanyahu.

David Lammy has reportedly received £102,640 from the Pro Israel Lobby.

 

[wellquickwoody]

You can only imagine that even the most mild mannered, anti violence Palestinians now see ALL Israelis as legitimate targets now.

 

[armchairclubber]

You can only imagine that even the most mild mannered, anti violence Palestinians now see ALL Israelis as legitimate targets now.

Having seen countless terrifying images of children, daily, trembling and ripped to shreds, as well as adults, I think that's probably the last thing on their minds right now.

They need help and urgently.

 

[nicko31]

Proud moment for the Impartial Brit representing colonialism & meeting 'war criminal' Netanyahu.

David Lammy has reportedly received £102,640 from the Pro Israel Lobby.

Sauce?

 

[armchairclubber]

Sauce?

Easy enough to find think best to Google. The image I posted has been removed for copyright.

 

[borat]

Sauce?

He's received sums from two big Israel lobbyists Trevor Chinn and Gary Lubner.

Can see Lubners donation (70k) in the link below. His family company also historically profited from South African apartheid and his son is an Israel lobbyist. Lubner is one of Labours biggest donors.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmregmem/240122/lammy_david.htm

 

[aolstudios]

He's received sums from two big Israel lobbyists Trevor Chinn and Gary Lubner.

Can see Lubners donation (70k) in the link below. His family company also historically profited from South African apartheid and his son is an Israel lobbyist. Lubner is one of Labours biggest donors.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmregmem/240122/lammy_david.htm

Lowkey? Seriously?

 

[Bakero]

Lowkey? Seriously?

What did he say in that video that is factually incorrect? The donation is shown on the parliament website.

 

[armchairclubber]

Lowkey? Seriously?

Are you trying to say Lowkey is racist?

Did you watch the tweet?

Was there any evidence of racism or unreliability in the tweet, or only truth?

Please provide evidence if so.

Or is lack of evidence why you made the ridiculous comparison and allegation against him.

___________________________________________________________________________________________

EDIT: @aolstudios

I understand your part of this post has now been edited (not by myself) due to you making an unfounded and potentially libellous accusation.

So Lowkey? Seriously? What?

 

[:J)]

UK's Labour 'backtracks' on decision to drop objection to ICC arrest warrants

Earlier reports suggested the UK would drop its objection to an application for warrants targeting Israel's PM Benjamin Netanyahu for war crimes

www.middleeasteye.net

This backtracks on the reported change of stance reported in the Guardian earlier this month.

Labour proving to be genocide enablers just like the Tories. I see no evidence of Starmer's promised 'Change'©.

 

[armchairclubber]

Harrowing account of the last moments of 24 year old Muhammed Bhar who had severe Down Syndrome and was Autistic.
For his mother to witness this.

The article may give the impression it was the dogs fault.

Gaza man with Down's syndrome attacked by IDF dog and left to die, mother says

Muhammed Bhar's family wants the Israeli military to investigate his death in Gaza City this month.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Hotchilidog]

Harrowing account of the last moments of 24 year old Muhammed Bhar who had severe Down Syndrome and was Autistic.
For his mother to witness this.

The article may give the impression it was the dogs fault.

Gaza man with Down's syndrome attacked by IDF dog and left to die, mother says

Muhammed Bhar's family wants the Israeli military to investigate his death in Gaza City this month.

www.bbc.co.uk

A snapshot of the inhumanity deployed by the IDF. So bad even the BBC have reported it. Just disgusting.

 

[:J)]

A snapshot of the inhumanity deployed by the IDF. So bad even the BBC have reported it. Just disgusting.

BTW - this was the original headline.



The edited headline is better - but still problematic. He was a Palestinian. By using the phrase 'Gaza man' they are trying to erase the concept of Palestine or Palestinian people.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I have been to Israel as you have and but have also studied law with Israel students for 3 years and theology - but unlike you, I grew up in a Jewish family surrounded by Jewish friends with both grandparents Holocaust survivors - I am Jewish so please don’t lecture me on Judaistic theology - I grew up with this stuff ffs and experience it daily in my life.

Your characterisation of the Jewish people believing in a ‘vengeful God, not a nice one’ is frankly antisemitic especially when you try and conflate that with the reason Palestine people are being subjected to torture, terror, mass punishments and starvation.

If any of the Jewish people, secular or otherwise, feel revengeful of Hamas’s attacks over the decades, it is because they are human and they have lost loved ones primarily in the IDF because of decades of conflict…the massacre in particular understandably triggered a major military response (as did 9/11) but that has nothing to do with Judaism.

Taking revenge is prohibited in Judaism

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1842551/jewish/What-Does-Judaism-Say-About-Taking-Revenge.htm#:~:text=Taking%2520revenge%2520is%2520prohibited%2520in%2520Judaism.&text=Rather%252C%2520Maimonides%2520continues%252C%2520if%2520someone,%E2%80%9D(7%253A5).

I am glad you had human interaction by those Jewish people you met btw.

Anyway, all this is doing is turning the discussion away from what is important here: the shocking videos posted above of those poor kids lying in the dust on a war torn Gazan street. It’s horrific and I agree that Hamas is equally responsible in failing to agree to a precipitous peaceful end to this conflict as is Netanyahu.