Is Herr Netanyahu getting desperate? Bombing the Iranian Consulate in Syria killing some Iranian top brass seems like an attempt to expand the conflict and in doing son then drag the US back to his defence?
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[News] Middle East conflict
- Thread starter Greenbag50
- Start date
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,909
I agree that reporting on the war in Gaza/the humanitarian tragedy is not anti-Semitic ( the MEE is actually a Qatari funded media outlet so yes, it is not likely to be impartial but I see no reason to disbelieve it’s content which as you say has been backed by MSM) but I think it is really important to distinguish between ‘Israel’ the Country and the right wing Government of Israel when talking about what the world ‘hates’.
This may seem like semantics but I think it is prudent in the current climate to stress that the World’ does not hate ‘Israel‘ per se but rather most countries are increasingly antithetical to Netanyahu’s Government and it’s response to the massacre as well as the far right wing policies of settlement expansion and refusal to recognise the rights of Palestinians to be free of the Occupation. There are Palestinians, other Arabs as well as Jews and Christians living in Israel, many of whom don’t support Netanyahu’s theocratic reforms, nor his war in Gaza. I have Jewish relatives, friends and Christian associates in Israel (as well as in the States) - they know full well how it is Netanyahu that is destroying any credibility and reputation Israel might have in the international stage but this is not the State of Israel itself. Israel is more than it’s Government.
Admittedly, there is deep prejudice rooted in Israeli society against Palestinians as there is against Israelis by many Palestinians living in the Occupied territories and most Israelis are only primarily against Netanyahu’s conduct of the war because it has failed to secure release for the hostages rather than for concern about Gazans but they also are increasingly seeing how Netanyahu is making Israeli’s security in the ME very precarious. None more so since 7/10. There is also deep rooted prejudice by many Jews towards Arabs amongst the population of Jews outside Israel too, a minority of whom really believe they have a God-given right to the whole lands of Palestine. However, one doesn’t forget 75 years of suicide bombings, rocket attacks and constant stone throwing. One doesn’t forget one of the darkest blots on European history that forced the repatriation of thousands of Jews to Palestine. Overcoming these cultural prejudices and holocaust memories that still cling to the Jewish psyche like the smell of fear will take decades, maybe even generations now if at all.
The prejudice against Jews in the Sunni Arab populations of Gaza and the West Bank also run deep - but this also unsurprising after 75 years of border conflicts since Israel, unilaterally declared herself a State back in 1948 then invaded and occupied the rest of Palestinian territory in 1967 after the 6 Day War. Subsequent blockades and apartheid policies followed resulting in years of humanitarian hardship and oppression with punishment beatings and missile attacks if any Palestinian dared protest. Because of this, even if Netanyahu is deposed, reconciliation and a peace process will be very difficult indeed following the massacre by Hamas and the response to it by his regime. However, it won’t be helped by throwing the baby out with the bath water - I think it is important to condemn, even hate the current regime in Israel but not Isreal itself - it is a beautiful Country with some truly amazing people.
(Sorry for another long post !
)
Fair point, well made. Change my 'Israel' comment to 'Israeli government and the IDF' and it's more accurate.I agree that reporting on the war in Gaza/the humanitarian tragedy is not anti-Semitic ( the MEE is actually a Qatari funded media outlet so yes, it is not likely to be impartial but I see no reason to disbelieve it’s content which as you say has been backed by MSM) but I think it is really important to distinguish between ‘Israel’ the Country and the right wing Government of Israel when talking about what the world ‘hates’.
This may seem like semantics but I think it is prudent in the current climate to stress that the World’ does not hate ‘Israel‘ per se but rather most countries are increasingly antithetical to Netanyahu’s Government and it’s response to the massacre as well as the far right wing policies of settlement expansion and refusal to recognise the rights of Palestinians to be free of the Occupation. There are Palestinians, other Arabs as well as Jews and Christians living in Israel, many of whom don’t support Netanyahu’s theocratic reforms, nor his war in Gaza. I have Jewish relatives, friends and Christian associates in Israel (as well as in the States) - they know full well how it is Netanyahu that is destroying any credibility and reputation Israel might have in the international stage but this is not the State of Israel itself. Israel is more than it’s Government.
Admittedly, there is deep prejudice rooted in Israeli society against Palestinians as there is against Israelis by many Palestinians living in the Occupied territories and most Israelis are only primarily against Netanyahu’s conduct of the war because it has failed to secure release for the hostages rather than for concern about Gazans but they also are increasingly seeing how Netanyahu is making Israeli’s security in the ME very precarious. None more so since 7/10. There is also deep rooted prejudice by many Jews towards Arabs amongst the population of Jews outside Israel too, a minority of whom really believe they have a God-given right to the whole lands of Palestine. However, one doesn’t forget 75 years of suicide bombings, rocket attacks and constant stone throwing. One doesn’t forget one of the darkest blots on European history that forced the repatriation of thousands of Jews to Palestine. Overcoming these cultural prejudices and holocaust memories that still cling to the Jewish psyche like the smell of fear will take decades, maybe even generations now if at all.
The prejudice against Jews in the Sunni Arab populations of Gaza and the West Bank also run deep - but this also unsurprising after 75 years of border conflicts since Israel, unilaterally declared herself a State back in 1948 then invaded and occupied the rest of Palestinian territory in 1967 after the 6 Day War. Subsequent blockades and apartheid policies followed resulting in years of humanitarian hardship and oppression with punishment beatings and missile attacks if any Palestinian dared protest. Because of this, even if Netanyahu is deposed, reconciliation and a peace process will be very difficult indeed following the massacre by Hamas and the response to it by his regime. However, it won’t be helped by throwing the baby out with the bath water - I think it is important to condemn, even hate the current regime in Israel but not Isreal itself - it is a beautiful Country with some truly amazing people.
(Sorry for another long post !
PS - are you Paul Barber ?
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,909
No, my emails are much shorter than his.PS - are you Paul Barber ?
- Apr 13, 2015
- 3,857
It won't matter if Netanyahu gets replaced.... even if replaced by a peace loving left leaning pacifist who grants all the wishes of the Palestinian movement,.... Hamas and/or similar will still regroup and start once again to build tunnels, import arms, fire missiles indiscriminately into random Israeli suburbs, blow themselves up on buses, knife police or security personnel on the streets..... and who will suffer most?.... those ordinary Palestinians who just want to peacefully coexist.... although, I expect that to be the minority....most Muslim folk want Jews eliminated.And now the extreme right wing dictatorship ie the Israeli State is arresting the relatives of the Hamas hostages for protesting that Israel is continuing to persecute its war ie indiscriminate slaughter of Palestinians rather than negotiate a ceasefire to facilitate the release of those hostages.
Hopefully, someone with a gun (I care not whether Israeli or Palestinian), will take out Netanyahu quicksticks and put a stop to this nightmare.
Israeli hostages’ relatives arrested at protest as Gaza talks break down
Family members and activists blocked a main road in Tel Aviv, demanding more be done to free them.www.bbc.co.uk
This is the response we should be getting from Sunak after a Brit was killed in the same tradegy:
Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has confirmed that aid worker Lalzawmi "Zomi" Frankcom was among those killed and has offered his condolences to family and friends.
In a statement, he said: "This is someone who was volunteering overseas to provide aid through this charity for people who are suffering tremendous deprivation in Gaza. And this is just completely unacceptable."
He said Australia expected "full accountability", adding that it was a "tragedy that should never have occurred". BBC
Nothing so far from the coward.
Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has confirmed that aid worker Lalzawmi "Zomi" Frankcom was among those killed and has offered his condolences to family and friends.
In a statement, he said: "This is someone who was volunteering overseas to provide aid through this charity for people who are suffering tremendous deprivation in Gaza. And this is just completely unacceptable."
He said Australia expected "full accountability", adding that it was a "tragedy that should never have occurred". BBC
Nothing so far from the coward.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,909
The only people doing any ‘eliminating’ at the moment is Israel’s government/the IDF from what I can see. But yes, maybe you are right in your implications and genocide of ‘most Muslim folk’ is the only way to resolve a 75 year old conflict between two peoples fighting over the rights to a tiny strip of land and the right to self-determination for both protagonists. Seriously, I despair of people who think violence, oppression and destruction of the means upon which innocent people depend to survive and thrive is a way to harmonising human relationships and understanding of other’s social, cultural and humanitarian needs.
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You mean like the leader of the Labour Party? I wholeheartedly agree.
Israeli troops withdraw from al-Shifa hospital, leaving piles of dead bodies
Two week siege of Gaza's largest medical complex ends in destruction of all buildings and hundreds of deathswww.middleeasteye.net
The barbarity of the Israeli army in full view following withdrawal from Al Shifa hospital. Any politician that backed/supported Israel should live in shame until the day they pass.
Indeed - this situation has highlighted the cowardice and lack of a moral backbone present in both main parties.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,909
It just gets worse - after the US/UK finally agree to get aid into Gaza by ships with the help of a new jetty built by the World Kitchen, following the missile strike that killed 7 aid workers, 3 ships carrying aid (that was also to be distributed by the World Kitchen) has now turned back to Cyprus with undelivered aid 
news.sky.com
amp.theguardian.com
Middle East latest: Ships loaded with 240 tonnes of aid to leave Gaza - as Israeli PM says 'unintended strike' killed charity workers
The IDF has expressed its "sincere sorrow" for the deaths of seven aid workers, including one from the UK, in a strike it launched on Gaza. A spokesman insisted the IDF was "committed to international law" after the attack, and vowed to share findings of an investigation.
news.sky.com
Ship carrying aid nears Gaza as Cyprus puts second vessel on standby | Gaza | The Guardian
Where Spanish-flagged vessel Open Arms will dock, and how supplies will be distributed, is still unclear
amp.theguardian.com
- Apr 13, 2015
- 3,857
You really struggle with comprehension don't you.... off you pop.The only people doing any ‘eliminating’ at the moment is Israel’s government/the IDF from what I can see. But yes, maybe you are right in your implications and genocide of ‘most Muslim folk’ is the only way to resolve a 75 year old conflict between two peoples fighting over the rights to a tiny strip of land and the right to self-determination for both protagonists. Seriously, I despair of people who think violence, oppression and destruction of the means upon which innocent people depend to survive and thrive is a way to harmonising human relationships and understanding of other’s social, cultural and humanitarian needs.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,909
On the contrary, it is you that does not seem understand the nature of what is happening in Gaza nor events and conditions over the past 75 years have led to up this to war - and it is you that is posting hate engendered comments like ‘most Muslim folk want Jews eliminated’ - you have no foundation for such a sweeping, stereotypical statement.
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Tom Bombadil
Well-known member
Please mate for your own good don't engage with this guy. Hopefully the mods can do something about his participation in this thread
Mod: Please play the ball, not the man. Thanks.
Time to turn off the taps to Israel if they’re killing British citizens
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,014
with targeting of aid workers when does Israel get hauled before The Hague Court?
- Apr 13, 2015
- 3,857
I expect as soon as someone has irrefutable evidence that the IDF has wilfully targeted Aid Workers..... you know, facts etc....
- Apr 13, 2015
- 3,857
- Apr 13, 2015
- 3,857
WTF
.... on the basis of what exactly?...
herecomesaregular
We're in the pipe, 5 by 5
It seems it's confirmed as a drone attack and the cars attacked had clear markings on their roofs (sp?) as aid workers. Also confirmed as first vehicle attacked, injured were moved to second vehicle, which was then attacked and then they were moved to the third vehicle, which was again.... attacked. Doesn't appear a one off slip of the trigger finger...
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