[News] Middle East conflict

[Steve Foster]

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Opinion is widespread, so is the level to which Jews (or any other follower of the Monotheistic religions, Islam and Christianty) live up to theological ideals of their own teachings.

And your views/lexicon has bordered on Islamophobia at times - maybe it’s not intentional, but words matter - that’s not tolerated in the UK, let alone on NSC - That’s why @Frutos asked you whether that was consistent with Jewish theology - it isn’t.

From the Torah/OT

”You shall not wrong a stranger (foreigner), or oppress him, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt”

”You shall not oppress a stranger, since you yourselves know the feelings of a stranger, since you yourselves were strangers in the land of Egypt “

This clearly makes xenophobia impermissible and Islamophobia definitely falls under that rubric.

I think we can both agree that all forms of hatred should not be tolerated.

 

[Justice]

Just like every media channel and radio phone in show this thread is now going round in circles.

 

[Frutos]

I think we can both agree that all forms of hatred should not be tolerated.

I certainly agree with that point, but I would appreciate a direct answer to a direct question:

Is making Islamophobic "jokes" acceptable in Judaism?

It's a yes or no.

 

[Frutos]

see above - no

Thank you, but it's SF's answer in which I'm interested.

 

[chimneys]

The Israeli forces are on a completely different different ethical wavelength to Hamas & you know this.

That’s what I was dearly dearly hoping would be the case, but once again, they are reverting to type! So bloody upsetting for a supposedly civilised government lowering itself to the level of Hamas!

 

[LamieRobertson]

Can you explain how bombing a supposedly safe evacuation route for Palestinians, killing seventy people (including women and children) shows the IDF has a different ethical wavelength?

Hamas and the IDF are both committing atrocities to innocent civilians, and therefore they should both be held responsible for their unethical acts of violence - or more so, those in power conducting these attacks.

Just as a matter of interest how do you think Hamas should be held responsible

 

[Steve Foster]

Thank you, but it's SF's answer in which I'm interested.

As I mentioned above, I have no issues with jokes against any faith, person, or individual - in my opinion it is when an individual is incessant against one category then I like most would have a problem? So - no, I don’t have a problem with an Islam joke or a Jewish joke or an English joke or a gay joke. Do you?

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I think we can both agree that all forms of hatred should not be tolerated.

Well stop showing it then!

 

[Frutos]

As I mentioned above, I have no issues with jokes against any faith, person, or individual - in my opinion it is when an individual is incessant against one category then I like most would have a problem? So - no, I don’t have a problem with an Islam joke or a Jewish joke or an English joke or a gay joke. Do you?

That wasn't my question.

I'll ask again, just for clarity:

Is making Islamophobic 'jokes' acceptable in Judaism?

I'm not interested in your personal opinion as to their acceptability.

 

[Krafty]

Just as a matter of interest how do you think Hamas should be held responsible

I think that the members of Hamas should be executed for their terrorist actions against the people of Israel, as some have referenced "an eye for an eye".

However, I wouldn't harm thousands of innocent civilians in doing so; instead establishing a humanitarian corridor for the citizens of Gaza to access crucial supplies without the constant bombardment of missiles which Gazans have been subject to, even in the so-called "safe routes".

 

[chimneys]

The Israeli forces are on a completely different different ethical wavelength to Hamas & you know this.

And please don’t try to dictate to me what I know!

I’m normally a very calm, tolerant of all person, but right now I’m completely disgusted by both Hamas and the Israeli Government.

You talk about ethics yet you don’t call out the Israeli government for bombing children/families after an airstrike hits a fleeing convoy on a Gaza 'safe' route, and that after carpet bombing swathes of Gaza!!

Wow!!

 

[Krafty]

You talk about ethics yet you don’t call out the Israeli government for bombing children/families after an airstrike hits a fleeing convoy on a Gaza 'safe' route, and that after carpet bombing swathes of Gaza!!

You are right, @Steve Foster does remind me of Live By The Sea and he has frequently appeared on this thread after the latter account's ban - could they be connected?

 

[LamieRobertson]

I think that the members of Hamas should be executed for their terrorist actions against the people of Israel, as some have referenced "an eye for an eye".

However, I wouldn't harm thousands of innocent civilians in doing so; instead establishing a safe, humanitarian corridor for the citizens of Gaza to access crucial supplies without the constant bombardment of missiles which Gazans have been subject to recently.

I think that the members of Hamas should be executed for their terrorist actions against the people of Israel, as some have referenced "an eye for an eye".

However, I wouldn't harm thousands of innocent civilians in doing so; instead establishing a humanitarian corridor for the citizens of Gaza to access crucial supplies without the constant bombardment of missiles which Gazans have been subject to, even in the so-called "safe routes".

How do you think this could be done if those people you wish executed are hidden amongst the very people that need protecting

Not expecting you to have an answer….I don’t!

 

[chimneys]

He is the same person

You are joking??! And I mean that, not just for effect!

 

[Krafty]

How do you think this could be done if those people you wish executed are hidden amongst the very people that need protecting

Not expecting you to have an answer….I don’t!

Indeed, this is the same issue I'm considering but don't have an answer to - maybe some others on NSC may provide solutions?

 

[nicko31]

I think that the members of Hamas should be executed for their terrorist actions against the people of Israel, as some have referenced "an eye for an eye".

However, I wouldn't harm thousands of innocent civilians in doing so; instead establishing a humanitarian corridor for the citizens of Gaza to access crucial supplies without the constant bombardment of missiles which Gazans have been subject to, even in the so-called "safe routes".

Israel is a really hurt and many are in no mood for moderation which I can understand. I would feel the same.

lashing out will make them feel justice has been served, but it will go nowhere towards a long term solution.

 

[chimneys]

As I mentioned above, I have no issues with jokes against any faith, person, or individual - in my opinion it is when an individual is incessant against one category then I like most would have a problem? So - no, I don’t have a problem with an Islam joke or a Jewish joke or an English joke or a gay joke. Do you?

Was your alias Live By The Sea?! Please be honest!

 

[Steve Foster]

You are right, @Steve Foster does remind me of Live By The Sea and he has frequently appeared on this thread after the latter account's ban - could they be connected?

Nope never heard of Live By The Sea!

 

[Steve Foster]

He is the same person

And I would add, that as a Jewish person, I feel very uncomfortable that the thread has taken the turn it has which was probably the original purpose of LbtS/SF jumping back in - I think we maybe should get back to less personal issues and not focus on people’s religion

Nope never heard of the other person. I have been on this board for 13+ years I see you have only jumped on in recent months?

 

[LamieRobertson]

Israel is a really hurt and many are in no mood for moderation which I can understand. I would feel the same.

lashing out will make them feel justice has been served, but it will go nowhere towards a long term solution.

Well this is it…..if I was someone who last weekend and had had family butchered etc …I’m guessing I would want revenge of some sort …maybe I’d think what would be the point ….then if I was in Gaza I’d be thinking hey don’t take it out on me or my family etc ……are those people in that moment bothered about a long term solution……rather than dealing with grief….and survival