[News] Middle East conflict

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I refer the laughably sanctimonious gentleman to the answer I gave some moments ago.

You were being a cock then, you're being a cock now

 

[London Irish]

The genocide about to be carried out in Gaza with the enthusiastic backing of every "democratic" Western nation shows how little human civilization has advanced from the 19th century. It is a curse to be alive in such barbaric times and watch helplessly these premeditated mass executions.

I know there will be a very large demo in London tomorrow to try and stop the bloodshed but we all know millions marched against the Iraq war and our politicians didn't give two shits, in fact most of these war criminal backers have made a big political comeback over recent years

 

[Wellesley]

You were being a cock then, you're being a cock now

I haven't been a cock at all. You are the one being abusive, on the Internet, because you're hard. I'm sure in real life you would terrify me. Now this really isn't the thread for THIS is it. I'll let you carry on and get the last word in because NSC is obviously all you have in your life.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I haven't been a cock at all. Although you are the expert I suppose. You are the one being abusive, on the Internet, because you're hard. I'm sure in real life you would terrify me. Now this really isn't the thread for THIS is it. I'll let you carry on and get the last word in because NSC is obviously all you have in your life.

 

[carlzeiss]

The teacher died.

Three Jewish schools in London close over security fears

The schools in north London are shut due to planned protests in support of Palestinians.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Steve Foster]

Some good news this morning

Counter-terrorism police arrest Brighton 22-year-old after pro-Palestine rally

Terror police arrested a woman after she gave a speech describing the Hamas attack on Israel as “beautiful” and “inspiring”

www.theargus.co.uk

 

[nicko31]

The genocide about to be carried out in Gaza with the enthusiastic backing of every "democratic" Western nation shows how little human civilization has advanced from the 19th century. It is a curse to be alive in such barbaric times and watch helplessly these premeditated mass executions.

I know there will be a very large demo in London tomorrow to try and stop the bloodshed but we all know millions marched against the Iraq war and our politicians didn't give two shits, in fact most of these war criminal backers have made a big political comeback over recent years

The difference with Iraq is they just ignored the public, now they actually want to criminalise the public for protest. Just look at the state of Braverman's letter to the police.

 

[jackanada]

Yes, indeed.

It is so important to remember that the party in the wrong is the extremist right-wing State of Israel NOT the global Jewish community (the overwhelming majority of whom will never have set foot in Israel). Those in our country forcing Jewish schools to close and attacking Jewish businesses must stop. They are attacking the wrong target - just like the Israelis killing innocent Palestinians when they should be going after members of Hamas.

Mossad is brilliant at infiltrating Arab communities, identifying terrorists and eliminating them. They have done so many times in the past. They could, if the Israeli government so chose, do it again. I don't think any right-minded person could object to that course of action after the horrors of last weekend.

It is the fundamentalists who elected and support Netanyahu's government that are responsible for the suffering of the Palestinian people.

Religious fundamentalists are dangerous irrespective of the religion they "follow".

They certainly have the ability to find and kill Hamas leaders. It's just the last time they bothered to do so was when Hamas had a leader who was unusually willing to engage with a peace process.

 

[dejavuatbtn]

The UN created some of this mess and subsequently washed their hands of it. It’s about time they got themselves involved in trying to sort out the humanitarian issues here.

 

[chickens]

There is a certain level of irony that the news carries almost identical footage of flattened Ukrainian cities and flattened Palestinian cities. We are simultaneously supposed to be sympathetic to the bombed citizens in Ukraine but support the bombers of Israel.

Am I the only one who is uncomfortable with the 100% Pro-Israeli stance taken by our government and the US? What Hamas did is unspeakably evil, but the Palestinian people deserve better.

It does feel as if some are (deliberately?) equating sympathy for Palestinians with sympathy for Hamas.

Israel was attacked, Hamas are murderers seeking the extinction of Israel, I have absolutely no issue with every single one of their fighters being hunted down and brought to justice.

However, that does not mean that I believe flattening North Gaza is a good idea. There’s plenty of people in any area who aren’t particularly political, they’re losing their homes, businesses and lives.

Hamas’s actions were atrocities, deliberately designed to provoke.
They believe (I fear correctly) that Israel’s response will be indiscriminate enough to foster further hatred against it and increase anti-Israel sentiment.

We (the West) have to stand with Israel. We’re largely the reason they’re there. As such I find our blindness to the misery that has been inflicted on Palestinians over decades at least partially understandable. We can’t afford mixed messaging here without fundamentally undermining our own position. Nonetheless, I’d prefer it if the calls for restraint and a targeted response were a bit louder on both sides of the Atlantic.

Israel is absolutely right to defend itself against aggressors, but I really wish they were treating this more like a targeted police operation than a “scorched earth” military operation. I fear the indiscriminate nature of their response is exactly what Hamas’s leadership was hoping for.

 

[Zeberdi]

Likely the same poster who is trying to stir up shit towards this forum in the Argus comments.

View attachment 168009

I love the recommendation that if you are Jewish don’t join NSC - if only he knew the slagging off I‘ve had from some posters for not being Jewish enough!

I like to think that I have a balanced view of the situation and I think he quoted many well established facts, not opinions of his.

I have been to Israel many times in the 90's as a press photographer during the intifadas and have seen first hand the situation, I do have sympathy for the Palestinian cause, but I also recognize when horrific crimes have been committed against innocent Jewish people without resorting to whataboutery

what we think is ‘balance’ is influenced by cultural, political, ideological, societal external influences it’s not easy to step outside that although I think some of us here are trying very hard to do so but others … hmm perhaps not so much

 

[chimneys]

I haven't been a cock at all. You are the one being abusive, on the Internet, because you're hard. I'm sure in real life you would terrify me. Now this really isn't the thread for THIS is it. I'll let you carry on and get the last word in because NSC is obviously all you have in your life.

Mods can you give these 2 children a clip round the ear please!! A humanitarian catastrophe is developing and they are bringing this thread down to playground insults. Beyond pathetic!!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

In the meantime, women get on with campaigning for peace, together.

 

[Krafty]

In all serious, it is awful to see what has occurred and worrying to think about what may occur to the people of Israel and Palestine in the following days, weeks, months and beyond.

 

[shingle]

I posed a difficult question earlier that no one has tried to answer. I know it's difficult, but has anyone got a suggestion that doesn't begin with 'I know what i wouldn't have done'

If you were the Israeli government how would you have responded on Sunday morning when the full horror of the previous days attacks were becoming apparent.?

I ask this question based on the assumption that people agree with Israel's right to existance. I'm sorry if the first bit sounds facetious, its not meant to be.

 

[Badger Boy]

At what point have Israel gone too far with the untargeted response? American didn't flatten Iraq or Afghanistan after 9/11 (despite being attacked by Saudis), they went after the actual bastards wot done it. Israel are destroying entire tower blocks of homes of innocent people, seemingly deliberately and indiscriminately. The attack on Israel is disgusting, shocking, unbelievable. Inevitably there would and should be an overwhelming response but at some point someone is going to have reign Netanyahu in a bit and end the slaughter he's wreaking with universal global backing.

Terrorist groups should be the target of the response and not the same innocent people murdered in Israel by Hamas.

 

[London Irish]

I posed a difficult question earlier that no one has tried to answer. I know it's difficult, but has anyone got a suggestion that doesn't begin with 'I know what i wouldn't have done'

If you were the Israeli government how would you have responded on Sunday morning when the full horror of the previous days attacks were becoming apparent.?

I ask this question based on the assumption that people agree with Israel's right to existance. I'm sorry if the first bit sounds facetious, its not meant to be.

Israel exists. Hamas has no military capacity to existentially threaten a state with the 4th or 5th biggest army in the world. What doesn't exist is a viable Palestine state, it is currently the world's biggest prison camp about to be turned into the world's biggest slaughterhouse. The question posed is Palestine's right to exist, not Israel's, the latter is an established fact that no one can change

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

At what point have Israel gone too far with the untargeted response? American didn't flatten Iraq or Afghanistan after 9/11 (despite being attacked by Saudis), they went after the actual bastards wot done it. Israel are destroying entire tower blocks of homes of innocent people, seemingly deliberately and indiscriminately. The attack on Israel is disgusting, shocking, unbelievable. Inevitably there would and should be an overwhelming response but at some point someone is going to have reign Netanyahu in a bit and end the slaughter he's wreaking with universal global backing.

Terrorist groups should be the target of the response and not the same innocent people murdered in Israel by Hamas.

A dossier released by Iraq Body Count, a project of the U.K. non-governmental non-violent and disarmament organization Oxford Research Group, attributed approximately 6,616 civilian deaths to the actions of U.S.-led forces during the "invasion phase", including the shock-and-awe bombing campaign on Baghdad

 

[Thunder Bolt]

A pal of mine is Turkish Cypriot and has a family home in the turkish republic (TRNC). As long as Greece and Turkey avoid using the place for a proxy war, it should retain the 'uneasy' stability. To fly to TRNC you have to go via Istambul, which is a bit of a pain, but not the end of the world.

I think it works because one side isn't trying to create illegal settlements on the land of the other side, and that other side isn't taking random pot shots across the border, leading to occasional major incursions and atrocities. Oh, and one side isn't being underwritten by America while the other is backed by nations hostile to the first, nations that surround the first on all sides.

Apart from that, the situations are identical.

Both Turkey and Greece are in NATO who is trying to keep a tight hold on them both.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I was trying to find a post where someone mentioned Palestinians trying to leave Gaza but this item from Ros Atkins explains why they can't. Besides Hamas holding them with fear, even Egypt has sealed its borders against them.