Meeting Gerry Adams

[NS Herald]

I listened on 5 live this morning to the dad of Tim Parry who was the 12 year old who was killed by an IRA bombing in Warrington in 1993.

His dad Colin is due to meet Gerry Adams for the first time tonight and I wondered what others may feel about being in his position? He said he had met Martin McGuinness before and found him to be a 'nice' person.

I don't think I could ever bring myself to meet such evil people despite the vastly improved situation in Northern Ireland and would probably be more inclined to throttle him than shake his hand.

Your thoughts?

 

[Il Duce]

I'm always impressed by people who are able to make peace in such a way. It's a bit like the reconciliation process that happened in South Africa post apartheid.

On the other side I saw a programme where an innocent citizen who almost died in a British Army raid met up with the guy who almost killed him. They're now good friends. But then again, neither of them were bad people in the first place. I'm not so sure you can say the same about people who have made a career out of hatred, violence and propaganda.

 

[NMH]

I'd calmly announce my interest in meeting him, say I'd found others to be nice fellows, and then kill the f**ker.

 

[Simster]

The likes of Adams and McGuinness are easily villified because of their violent pasts, but their places in history ought to be assured, not least because they brought a renegade army to the negotiating table, they had the PIRA lay down their arms, decommission them while pretty much giving the impression that this was NOT surrender.

This is incredibly skillful politics IMO. No-one likes war, and no one likes to surrender because it makes lost lives seem even more pointless. Plus the IRA were severely provoked and guilty of half the number of murders of the two or three protestant terrorist groups.

Please note, I'm not making excuses for the conduct of either man, but I do think we ought to give credit where it is due. I firmly believe there are very few people on this planet capable of achieving what they did. You'll note that ETA, the Tamils, the Columbian separatists etc all continue to maim in their own similar struggles.

 

[Brovion]

I tend to agree with Simster. Also I would argue that there isn't that much difference in Parry meeting Adams (who after all didn't actually place the bomb) and someone from Dresden meeting Bomber Harris after WW2. Innocent people always die in wars. Having said that if my children had been killed in an act of war I personally wouldn't want to meet the individual who was ultimately responsible - unless as NMH says it's to kill them in revenge.

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

What you've got to ask yourself is, if you had been a young Catholic growing up in Northern (or Southern) Ireland during the height of 'the Troubles' would you not have joined the IRA? I can say with reasonable certainty that I would have done so and I'm sure many on here would have too if they were honest.

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

The likes of Adams and McGuinness are easily villified because of their violent pasts, but their places in history ought to be assured, not least because they brought a renegade army to the negotiating table, they had the PIRA lay down their arms, decommission them while pretty much giving the impression that this was NOT surrender.

And not least because they survived the daily threat of assasination for decades! I wouldn't have fancied the job of starting either of their cars in the morning. Not sure about McGuinness, but Adams still lives in the area where he grew up, refusing to move in spite of the ever-present threat to himself, his wife and kids.

 

[Cian]

And not least because they survived the daily threat of assasination for decades! I wouldn't have fancied the job of starting either of their cars in the morning. Not sure about McGuinness, but Adams still lives in the area where he grew up, refusing to move in spite of the ever-present threat to himself, his wife and kids.

McGuinness is MP for the area two constituencies over from where he's from - I'd suspect he lives in his constituency?

 

[Billy the Fish]

Plus the IRA were severely provoked and guilty of half the number of murders of the two or three protestant terrorist groups.

That is complete rubbish. How many major bombings did you hear of the UDA, UVF and UFF doing? They didn't kill anywhere near as many people as the IRA.
Why is everyone wanking over gerry adams, he ordrerd the murders of innocent people who had nothing to do with his 'war'

 

[Cian]

That is complete rubbish. How many major bombings did you hear of the UDA, UVF and UFF doing? They didn't kill anywhere near as many people as the IRA.
Why is everyone wanking over gerry adams, he ordrerd the murders of innocent people who had nothing to do with his 'war'

Dublin. Monaghan. Castleblayney. Belturbet. Dublin Airport. Dundalk. I could continue... All located in a non-combatant country in what is effectively your second civil war.

 

[Simster]

That is complete rubbish. How many major bombings did you hear of the UDA, UVF and UFF doing? They didn't kill anywhere near as many people as the IRA.
Why is everyone wanking over gerry adams, he ordrerd the murders of innocent people who had nothing to do with his 'war'

No, no it's not rubbish. I'll post some links this evening when I have time.

 

[Il Duce]

The statistics do appear to show that Republican Paramilitaries have been responsible for more deaths than Loyalist Paramilitaries. However, in terms of civilian casualties, Loyalists have killed more. If you add on the number of civilians killed by the Britsh Army and the RUC, it's even worse.

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/violence/cts/tables.htm

 

[Billy the Fish]

Dublin. Monaghan. Castleblayney. Belturbet. Dublin Airport. Dundalk. I could continue... All located in a non-combatant country in what is effectively your second civil war.

They still didn't kill as many as the IRA.

 

[Cian]

They still didn't kill as many as the IRA.

Which wasn't a point I was trying to answer now was it?

 

[Il Duce]

To be honest, arguing over who were the worst paramilitaries is a bit pointless. Both side committed terrible things in the past, but overall, Northern Ireland has made a hell of a lot of progress in recent years. If the territory is to move forward then reconciliation and working together has to be supported, however painful it may be.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

That is complete rubbish. How many major bombings did you hear of the UDA, UVF and UFF doing? They didn't kill anywhere near as many people as the IRA.
Why is everyone wanking over gerry adams, he ordrerd the murders of innocent people who had nothing to do with his 'war'

A few to be going on with.
Dublin 1/12/72
Dublin 20/1/73
Dublin & Monaghan 17/5/74
Dundalk 19/12/75
Dublin Train 20/9/94
Dublin 23/5/94

 

[Brovion]

They still didn't kill as many as the IRA.

That's not really the point though. In no war (not even WW2 which is the nearest you're going to find to a 'just' war) does one side commit all the 'bad' deeds - and certainly not is something as ugly as a civil, sectarian struggle. Regardless of who killed who and how (and why) people want to try and move on, there's little to be gained in totting up the deaths.

 

[Billy the Fish]

No, no it's not rubbish. I'll post some links this evening when I have time.

From google
http://www.inac.org/irishhistory/deaths

Judging by the colours on that website they've added their own political slant on things, how many of those 'civilians' were actually IRA activists? Not as black and white as I thought, time to bow out I think.

 

[NMH]

I tend to agree with Simster. Also I would argue that there isn't that much difference in Parry meeting Adams (who after all didn't actually place the bomb) and someone from Dresden meeting Bomber Harris after WW2. Innocent people always die in wars. Having said that if my children had been killed in an act of war I personally wouldn't want to meet the individual who was ultimately responsible - unless as NMH says it's to kill them in revenge.

Indeed, I do see the point in that, and how any level-headedness must preside in agreement that war is a horrible event and people do get killed in it. If I had a lad go off to war (or a lass, come to that), and got killed in the line of duty - I wouldn't blame everyone of that nationality for the death, as if holding them personally responsible.
However, if faced with the actual person who did the deed, I am sure my control of emotions would fail in favour of vengeance. If it were an act of terrorism (faceless, bomb in disco, no military involvement perpetrated on innocents) then things would be even more difficult when faced with 'one of theirs'. In that case, I believe I might actively be looking for them so I could eke out some levity in the name of my offspring. I cannot imagine civility coming into the picture where that's concerned. Think Ving Reims.

 

[Cian]

how many of those 'civilians' were actually IRA activists?

Considered that's not just you adding *your* own political slant to things? From your postings on this thread alone you've shown yourself to have very obvious leanings to one side...