[Football] Mason Greenwood

[dazzer6666]

I’ve missed the aspect of the story about pressure on the women’s team. What are they asking of them?

From the detailed Athletic article :

As part of the club’s plan for Greenwood’s reintegration with the first team, Arnold intended to record a video explaining the decision that would be shared both with staff and the general public. The proposed date for the announcement was Friday, August 4.

Arnold’s idea was that Greenwood would not make any appearances with the club’s charitable arm, the Manchester United Foundation, in the short to medium term.
The proposed announcement was, however, then pushed back, with a date at the end of this month now appearing more likely.

The Athletic has not been told the precise reason United have delayed but it has been reported widely that the club wished to inform key stakeholders of their decision ahead of going public. This would have included principal sponsors, the FAB and also members of the women’s team.

However, several key players for the United women’s team, including goalkeeper Mary Earps and captain Katie Zelem, remain on international duty with England at the World Cup in Australia. England will play in the final against Spain on Sunday.

One theory, therefore, is that United have simply delayed the formalities until their women’s players return to the UK.

 

[Hamilton]

I’ve missed the aspect of the story about pressure on the women’s team. What are they asking of them?

It's the fact that the women's team and staff at the training grounds are now feeling pressure from misguided Manchester United fans who want his return.

Female staff have rightly expressed concern and are now receiving hateful social media pressure. This includes Manchester United players at the world cup.

The club, by saying that it would consult with the women's team - which it said last week I believe - have created an atmosphere where the misogynists can blame the women for any decision to remove Greenwood. Spineless and disgraceful. leadership. How deaf are they that they need to consult? I would love to know what question they posed.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

As I posted here: https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/threads/rachel-riley.170212/page-36#post-10785284

I've sat on several DV trials. They are very difficult to prove to the required standard (beyond reasonable doubt) because there are generally only two people involved so it's one person's word against another. There can be corroborating evidence, such as injuries, previous behaviour (although this would need a bad character hearing to be admissible) or, as in this case, audio/video.
What make's DV almost impossible to prove is if the victim withdraws their statement or makes it clear that they are no longer willing to co-operate with the prosecution.
A prosecution collapsing doesn't mean the alleged perpetrator isn't a wife-beating scumbag, just that he cannot be proved to be so.

Where it gets interesting is that a civil case, such as breach of contract, only has to prove "on the balance of probability" and it's entirely possible that the evidence already available would be sufficient to terminate his contract for bringing the club into disrepute.

As regards your last paragraph, there is the incident of being sent home by England from Iceland, which could also go against him.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Amazes me that people reach conclusions in either direction based on the very very limited (none) facts they have at hand. For what it's worth I think Mason Greenwood is probably an awful person but I'll let people who are much closer to the situation judge.

Tangentially, once Rachel Riley has opined, I'm instinctively in the opposite camp as much of what I've heard from her suggest she's also not a great character.

Because she objected to Corbyn's antisemitism? Or something else?

 

[The Clamp]

Amazes me that people reach conclusions in either direction based on the very very limited (none) facts they have at hand. For what it's worth I think Mason Greenwood is probably an awful person but I'll let people who are much closer to the situation judge.

Tangentially, once Rachel Riley has opined, I'm instinctively in the opposite camp as much of what I've heard from her suggest she's also not a great character.

You instinctively feel he should be allowed to continue to play?

Seems a strange conclusion to reach based on a very, very limited knowledge of Rachel Riley.

 

[Hamilton]

Amazes me that people reach conclusions in either direction based on the very very limited (none) facts they have at hand. For what it's worth I think Mason Greenwood is probably an awful person but I'll let people who are much closer to the situation judge.

Tangentially, once Rachel Riley has opined, I'm instinctively in the opposite camp as much of what I've heard from her suggest she's also not a great character.

What has Rachel Riley done?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

How skewed is Manchester United's moral compass, for them to even contemplate playing Greenwood again. Beggars belief.

Sure, but some equally wretched club will offer him a contract

 

[Mackenzie]

Sure, but some equally wretched club will offer him a contract

Wretched would be about right.

I’m interested in how this resolves itself, but I suspect Greenwood will never be permitted to play football in the UK again by UK fans. I can’t see any chairman, however greedy and divorced from reality, sanctioning his signing due to the backlash from the fans.

 

[Grizz]

It's the fact that the women's team and staff at the training grounds are now feeling pressure from misguided Manchester United fans who want his return.

Female staff have rightly expressed concern and are now receiving hateful social media pressure. This includes Manchester United players at the world cup.

The club, by saying that it would consult with the women's team - which it said last week I believe - have created an atmosphere where the misogynists can blame the women for any decision to remove Greenwood. Spineless and disgraceful. leadership. How deaf are they that they need to consult? I would love to know what question they posed.

Exactly. They could've done all this behind closed doors without any deadline being announced and taken the correct decision of cancelling his contract with the club, which is the right decision.

Now all that has been shifted onto, among others, the women players at the world cup, who now become the target of the ire of the mysoginists and other dickheads who want him to stay. Shocking shifting of responsibility by the United Board. They should be ashamed of themselves with the amount of abuse those against him returning are now going to receive.

 

[The Wizard]

This subject was always going to end in a typical NSC binfest wasn’t it.

It’s a very very tricky subject because in the eyes of the courts he is *innocent* but clearly he is not totally innocent if you listen to the recordings etc

He will end up probably in France or Italy or maybe even Saudi as unfortunately as unlikable a man as he appears to be, he is free to continue his football career and is a very talented footballer, he just won’t be able to continue in England.

There are footballers who have done equally bad things (drink driving deaths, assaults etc) and have had a career afterwards

 

[jcdenton08]

I can’t believe they’re trying to get away with bringing him back. Surely sponsors would pull out, and the second they do they’ll back down.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

There are a number of important statistics to consider in relation to this issue -

1. Less a third of all rapes are reported to the police (310 out of every 1,000 cases)
2. There were 67,125 rape offences reported to police in the UK in 2021
3. Out of cases reported - less than 1 in 6 lead to an arrest (50 out of every 1,000 cases)
4. Of the 67,125 rapes reported to the police - 1,557 resulted in a conviction (2.3% of all reported rapes)
5. Not every rape conviction results in a custodial sentence
6. The number of false allegations is less than 2% - and in the vast majority of cases it is clear that the allegation is false from a very early stage in the investigation. In the last five years only two cases of false allegations ended up in court and it was very clear from early in the court case that the allegation was false and the case was thrown out of court.
7. Out of every 1,000 rapes that occur in Britain - 980 of the perpetrators walk free.

Only 2 rapists out of every 100 are caught, charged, convicted and end up in prison.

 

[fly high]

One thing I’m seeing more and more of in my work is the sense of entitlement in young men.

That audio recording is a prime example;

“I asked politely but you said no, what else am I supposed to do”?

As if access to her body is his right and her consent is not a consideration.

I see more and more cases of inappropriate sexual attention being met with a
“Huh? What’s the problem”? reaction.

It’s worrying. Like a return to the early 1900’s.

And of course the acceptance by the victims of it being an inevitable part of a night out. Which has sadly been the case since time immemorial.

It seems to me that misogyny in the 21st century is on the increase in young men. Is it because of all the porn they watch from a young age? I'd hasten to add it's not all young men with many who are respectful.

 

[The Clamp]

It seems to me that misogyny in the 21st century is on the increase in young men. Is it because of all the points they watch from a young age? I'd hasten to add it's not all young men with many who are respectful.

IMO, it’s many things including but not limited to; porn, social media influencers, US culture, chem-sex, and unfortunately, seeing people like Greenwood get away with it and sometimes celebrated and defended for it on social media.

 

[The Fits]

It seems to me that misogyny in the 21st century is on the increase in young men. Is it because of all the points they watch from a young age? I'd hasten to add it's not all young men with many who are respectful.

I know a lot of people in both youth work and education. Porn is a massive problem. The statistics about the amount of porn recommended to viewers that features violence, rape style scenarios etc on the likes of pornhub is alarming. Some young people are literally brought up on that shit.
Anecdotally I heard about a teenage boy confiding in an adult who felt he wasn't a proper man because he was uncomfortable choking his GF. He felt like that was what you were meant to do, even more worrying that it was she wanted and needed to feel pleasure.
This isn't excusing male sex offenders by the way, but it's a mess.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

It seems to me that misogyny in the 21st century is on the increase in young men. Is it because of all the porn they watch from a young age? I'd hasten to add it's not all young men with many who are respectful.

Depends how you define, categorise and compare misogyny from one generation to the next. Greenwood (allegedly) was audio recorded on a phone, and along with phone pictures of her injuries, was uploaded via the internet to a social media site by the victim, who was confident of getting a sympathetic hearing. Can you think of reasons why previous generations of women may not have done the same? There’s every likelihood that misogyny used to be far worse but previous generations of women were forced to suffer in silence, and so are far more invisible to us, looking back. Thinking about my experience in the workplace, there’s far LESS misogyny now than in the 70s and 80s.

 

[A1X]

 

[drew]

Amazes me that people reach conclusions in either direction based on the very very limited (none) facts they have at hand. For what it's worth I think Mason Greenwood is probably an awful person but I'll let people who are much closer to the situation judge.

Tangentially, once Rachel Riley has opined, I'm instinctively in the opposite camp as much of what I've heard from her suggest she's also not a great character.

So because she makes a comment against domestic violence you're now happy to support it!!

 

[drew]

First up, I do not condone violence against anybody, not just women.

Secondly, as per my Initial post, anybody prepared to condemn without legal conviction should be prepared to be the hangman. And not all cases are as straight forward as this appears to be.

We're talking about this case and on the evidence currently available I'd happily be the hangman however there would of course be an opportunity for Greenwood/Manure to present this so called evidence which isn't in the public domain to try and convince me of a stay of execution!!

 

[The Fits]

Manchester United’s internal process has not consulted charities specialised in supporting women in cases where alleged domestic or sexual abuse has occurred.

Wow.
That and this scapegoating of the women's team is just so naive and verging on misogyny. Men in ties thinking they know best.
What a total PR own goal.