[Football] Maradona

[Brian Fantana]

STATS !!!!!!

Oh god .

I’m done with modern football.

Despite the fact that Pele has historically been judged on the mythical goal tally that he amassed during his career, which is, um, a stat.

I don't think Pele is a modern footballer by any stretch of the imagination.

Out of interest, how do you judge a player's ability or rate his career then?

Number of trophies won?
Number of individual awards?
Number of goals?
Number of assists?
Number of seasons played internationally or at the top level?

If its any of the above, those are clearly all stats.

I'm genuinely baffled by the idea that anything to do with stats is solely connected to modern football.

 

[Garyoldfan]

Despite the fact that Pele has historically been judged on the mythical goal tally that he amassed during his career, which is, um, a stat.

I don't think Pele is a modern footballer by any stretch of the imagination.

Out of interest, how do you judge a player's ability or rate his career then?

Number of trophies won?
Number of individual awards?
Number of goals?
Number of assists?
Number of seasons played internationally or at the top level?

If its any of the above, those are clearly all stats.

I'm genuinely baffled by the idea that anything to do with stats is solely connected to modern football.

Stats say Phil Neville won more trophies than George best. I hate stats. It’s an Americanism that has soiled our sport. I’ll use my eyes instead.

 

[Exilegull]

Stats say Phil Neville won more trophies than George best. I hate stats. It’s an Americanism that has soiled our sport. I’ll use my eyes instead.

Good on you then you can win the league every year with a fake league table

 

[Stato]

I hate stats.

None taken....

 

[Beanstalk]

I've just got back from a weekend in Napoli and got to say, it's pretty amazing to see someone revered like that. Loads of flags and posters up celebrating last year's championship win, and they all include Diego photoshopped in as part of the celebrations.

I'm too young to have ever watched Diego and I think when the paint is dry on Messi's career, it'll be hard to compare anyone to him, but there is something magnificently special and mythical about Maradona dragging Napoli and Argentina almost single-handedly to glory that hasn't really been replicated anywhere else to the same extent.

The greatest maverick of all time at least.

 

[Brian Fantana]

Stats say Phil Neville won more trophies than George best. I hate stats. It’s an Americanism that has soiled our sport. I’ll use my eyes instead.

Stats will also tell you that George Best won a Ballon D'Or and Phil Neville didn't.

In terms of them spoiling our sport, we're probably the wrong club to support for you currently then As without them, TB probably wouldn't have made his fortune, bought the Albion or indeed had the insights available to sign the players like Mac Allister and managers like De Zerbi, who have taken us to places that we'd never had got to otherwise.

 

[stewart12]

there's a beautiful romance with Maradona that you won't get with any other top tier player. He was a (very) flawed genius and of course, absolutely mental. He forged an inseparable bond with the clubs that he played for to the point that he is still worshipped by fans of Napoli and Boca. Dragged his national team to the world cup final whilst absolutely off his face. No real effort just was blessed with outrageous talent, would rock up to a game probably with cocaine residue still on his face, and make an absolute mockery of his opponents

he got to the top and spent his time there absolutely ploughing his way through the white stuff and laying pipe all over the place.

you can admire the dedication to the craft of the likes of Ronaldo and Messi, but give me the romance of someone who got their through pure god given talent and ultimately had NO dedication to the craft any day of the week

Ronaldinho perhaps comes close

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

I'm intrigued as to why everybody says Pele was the business when, truth be told, we never really saw that much of him, did we? Yes, we've all seen his World Cup highlights – and there's no doubt he was a top, top, top, top, top player – but is that all we're going on?

Age in the World Cup (?17)
First player to a 1000 goals
Santos

You’d be surprised there were a lot of videos, cine films.

Maradona is just in colour and of course, most of the games many of us have seen would have been highlights at club level so not that much difference. The live ones for Maradona were the world cups.

My Father saw Pele in his latter years with NY Cosmos, still a great player, and then Brazil team of 1970…… wonderful

 

[AstroSloth]

Messi not as strong on the ball. No one has come close to Maradona on dribbling skills with strength.

Clueless lmao.

 

[herecomesaregular]

Out of all the top talents, if I could, it would be Maradona I would love to go back in time and see a match in his prime. So, by that judgement he'd be my greatest. Always had a great respect for the second Ronaldo but I can't imagine a team with Maradona in it being spanked 4-0 at the Amex... As for the cheating element, I no longer care less about the WC handball. We've seen Henry do the same to Ireland and there's being many other examples of recent cheating in the game, repeatedly, all the time.

 

[JBizzle]

I haven't trawled through this whole thread but, if it hasn't been mentioned, the Maradona documentary is an astounding watch. The guy was swamped every day of his professional life by fans, hangers on, chancers and mobsters. It's a miracle he managed to be the player he was with all the noise he had to deal with day-to-day.

 

[Brian Fantana]

there's a beautiful romance with Maradona that you won't get with any other top tier player. He was a (very) flawed genius and of course, absolutely mental. He forged an inseparable bond with the clubs that he played for to the point that he is still worshipped by fans of Napoli and Boca. Dragged his national team to the world cup final whilst absolutely off his face. No real effort just was blessed with outrageous talent, would rock up to a game probably with cocaine residue still on his face, and make an absolute mockery of his opponents

he got to the top and spent his time there absolutely ploughing his way through the white stuff and laying pipe all over the place.

you can admire the dedication to the craft of the likes of Ronaldo and Messi, but give me the romance of someone who got their through pure god given talent and ultimately had NO dedication to the craft any day of the week

Ronaldinho perhaps comes close

As our resident flair guru, where does Maradona fit on the scale? He has ALL the attributes to be off the charts BUT he selfishly backed it up by actually delivering some important silverware too.

 

[Flounce]

Despite the fact that Pele has historically been judged on the mythical goal tally that he amassed during his career, which is, um, a stat.

I don't think Pele is a modern footballer by any stretch of the imagination.

Out of interest, how do you judge a player's ability or rate his career then?

Number of trophies won?
Number of individual awards?
Number of goals?
Number of assists?
Number of seasons played internationally or at the top level?

If its any of the above, those are clearly all stats.

I'm genuinely baffled by the idea that anything to do with stats is solely connected to modern football.

I gauge players by what I’ve seen of them on the pitch, either live or on tv

I did see Pele play in a few games and I personally wouldn’t put him in the same league as Maradona. He played in top teams when the quality of the opposition was generally at a much lower level. There is a myth about just how good Pele was imo

He didn’t cope anywhere near as well as Maradona with crunching tackles either, from memory he missed quite a few WC games because of it too.

It’s all about opinions, and I’ve seen nothing on this thread to change my mind about Maradona being the best ever.

 

[GJN1]

My Father saw Pele in his latter years with NY Cosmos, still a great player, and then Brazil team of 1970…… wonderful

A great player at the Cosmos, compared to the ragtag bunch he was playing with when he arrived.

 

[stewart12]

As our resident flair guru, where does Maradona fit on the scale? He has ALL the attributes to be off the charts BUT he selfishly backed it up by actually delivering some important silverware too.

I think even taking the silverwear into account he is the absolute pinnacle of flair

 

[Flounce]

A great player at the Cosmos, compared to the ragtag bunch he was playing with when he arrived.

Cosmos was just the Harlem Globetrotters of football, not to be taken seriously

 

[Garyoldfan]

Stats will also tell you that George Best won a Ballon D'Or and Phil Neville didn't.

In terms of them spoiling our sport, we're probably the wrong club to support for you currently then As without them, TB probably wouldn't have made his fortune, bought the Albion or indeed had the insights available to sign the players like Mac Allister and managers like De Zerbi, who have taken us to places that we'd never had got to otherwise.

Stats are shit.

 

[GJN1]

Cosmos was just the Harlem Globetrotters of football, not to be taken seriously

Pretty much right

 

[stewart12]

btw- "Maradona was a cheat"- all players cheat

the difference with Maradona, is that he refused to show any semblance of remorse about it because he was such a cheeky scamp. Also he did it against the team with the most insecure and easily outraged fans on earth which probably fuelled his rogue-ish response to it all

maybe Shilton could have prevented that goal by not getting outjumped by a 5 foot 5 opponent

 

[GJN1]

maybe Shilton could have prevented that goal by not getting outjumped by a 5 foot 5 opponent

1986 was a World Cup too far for him. And yet, he stayed around till 1990.